New Rear U Joints Needed-- Again

Agent Blue said:
Boardercollie;
I know what was done and don't have to end up with some one elses short cut ( he will never know anyway ) version.
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Even though, I have never done a job like this all by myself, I found a lot of those shortcuts. That's one reason the bearings were frozen with rust. No grease at all in the areas between, no crimps on the boots, no grease at all in those, short one outside oil seal even though it was on my bill from before, and the other thing I caught when I got it back before - the transmission was low on fluid.- I heard it whinning and checked it thank goodness. I may mess up too but I won't be trying to cover it up. Thanks, Bordercolllie
 
Work in progress..

I cleaned up the yokes on 1 set of shafts and replaced the oem u joints with one of the 397's . I carefully ground down the inside of each yoke so that the clips would fit.( As my parts guy recommended.) I took off about 1 mm maybe a little more total- taking some metal from each side. I hardly sanded the cap opening but removed some roughness with a half round file and finishing off with some fine sandpaper on a dowel. If you are concerned about altering the yokes, you might should go with oem. At first i did the metal removal with a large file- went no where- I had nothing but a hand grinder with too small a wheel to fit far enough in the yokes. Plus there just wasn't enough control with the delicate amount of metal to remove.. I looked around and saw the bench grinder. It worked great for me. I just held the yoke straddling the rock and went carefully and slow- side to side. Stop- measure- go again and again I smoothed it off with a cheap flat bar type honing stone I had - It makes for a nice flat and smooth surface to clean up the grinding rock swirls.I am posting a picture showing the 397 setting slightly deeper in the yoke opening - the clips fit snug but the joint doesn't bind after the grinding and smoothing of the yokes.In my case, the yokes sides had to be ground down or the 397 u joint's just would not fit. I think a slide type caliper is a necessity on this project.
It seems I will have to get the oil seals from Kubota. I got the bearings from the local parts place. I will post the numbers when I know they fit right and have run the machine around some- still a ways to go though. By the way, the oem u joints sound like a fire cracker when they come loose from the yokes- rusty , rusty- thank goodness for the hyd press.!! More to follow. Bordercollie
 

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IM glad its going and I wouldnt steer you wrong on the joint parts as I know they are a pain to replace.Its the only joints Im using in mine cause I wont pay Kubotsa 95 dollar price tag.
If and when I have to do my inners Ill take the whole axel to my friend who did the joints for me as he has a Big press.
Good luck and Let us know when you have it back together.
Glad I could at least save you some money on Joints

Regards

Mark
 
@ Mark: Yes, I appreciate your help with the joint #$$ and thanks!. I am almost having fun with this... almost.! I think once I got the press here, my luck changed and things are now looking up. For example , I was putting a new clip on one of the caps without a rag over it and it shot to the roof , bounced down and went to the side of the shop. I heard the area it went, went over and in the first place I looked-- there it was -in my opened tool cart box.! Wow ! - Now that is good luck because my part of the shop is messy from the hectic winter and spring!!
I just wish that the 392's would have fit my front drive shaft. I guess I have a different one or a fluke somehow . I am still hoping to find some joints smaller that the 392's for mine .
I had to order the oil seals and it will be a week before they come in but I intend to have the joints ready and waiting. More to follow. Bordercollie
 
If its the standard shaft shown here
DS1.JPG
they should work
On these you will have to open up the hole like you did the other one and you will need to grind out a little for the clips to fit in
Tomorrow Ill take some close ups to send to you to see where I had to grind a bit off.

Mark
 
The 397 rear joints fit the rear axles good after a little grinding on the inner sides of the yokes. On the drive shaft-my yoke holes were fine on the diameter but the distance between was just too narrow for the 392's. I tried to install one 392 on the shaft, got one clip on and the other clip groove wasn't visible- after squeezing up- no pins had fallen . The yokes are not bent. I got it so tight it was binding but just wouldn't push up. So I took it off. Also, I laid the oem joint I took out on top of the 392. The 392 was a mm or so longer on each end. I think that is my problem with the front drive shaft.This shaft was one I had taken off years ago and I thought I would fix it up and have it on stand by so I am not in a lurch or anything. My current one is clacking some but I am going to get the 397 rear joints in the rear axles and be happy, happy . Thanks for suggesting those. I'm not sure what is going on with the front drive shaft but it is cool. I just have a weird shaft or something. bordercollie
 
Great post on the rear end bearing issues.

We will all be there someday.

Can the area between the bearings be filled with 80-90 gear oil when completed to prevent rust and perhaps make things last longer?

Or perhaps enough oil to say it's half full and the shaft turning would spread it everywhere when you are moving.

Grease might work as well, although it doesn't travel into the tight spots as easy as heavy oil would.

Or would it just leak and create a mess all the time?
 
Thanks,There is no way to put oil in there unless someone drilled the top of the area and tapped it for a plug. I doubt I will venture there but I do plan on filling it up with grease- bearing grease unless someone sees a problem with that. It has an oil seal in the front and in the back. It was dry as a bone in there with a teaspoon or more of rust dust.We worked cows yesterday and I am working outside in the garden today as it is soo nice but plan on getting the joints all put together later today. Then, I will be waiting on the seals to come in next week. Warning! I will be taking more pictures. :) bordercollie
 
Boardercollie is a JInx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was out this morning dragging some brush piles to the back of the property and on a tunr guess what???
Looks like next payday Ill be pulling the rear end off again Number 8 this year and replacing the 2 inside joints.
Im going to order bearings and seals and replace the whole shot.

Ought to be fun (NOT)
 
Someone said between the bearings on the top of main housing they drilled and tap it for a grease zet and after they ass. they filled it with grease fron a grease gun to keep water and rust from getting in there....sounds like a winner to me.
Just don't overdue it so not to push the new bearing seals out.

Art
 
What,, me a jinx?

Mark.Sibole said:
Boardercollie is a JInx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was out this morning dragging some brush piles to the back of the property and on a tunr guess what???
Looks like next payday Ill be pulling the rear end off again Number 8 this year and replacing the 2 inside joints.
Im going to order bearings and seals and replace the whole shot.

Ought to be fun (NOT)
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Hummmm Mark.. it seems like this all started for me with your original post! :) ha.ha. I actually think the u joints on my machine were ok closest to the wheel area but I decided to replace them all- so hopefully I wouldn't have to tear it apart again. I had no choice but to replace the seals and bearings because of the way things looked in there ,anyway. At least you know how I got the axle out of the bumper.. I remember you tried much like I did before I got Dad's press.
Art, I remember something about that thread and will try to locate it. I have a tap and tie set so I may try that.
Yesterday, on the press, I removed a broken out cap with a short piece of rod from one of the yokes.I also straightened out a slightly bent yoke with an idea I found on the net using a bolt ,nut and a big spacer (a large nut not attached) and wound it out to the original shape. I am thinking about putting a rod the right size at the edge of the yoke when pressing to keep the yoke from bending on my last one to break down. I also had one all put together and realized that someone had evidently returned that joint and not put in the cap for the greaser but had put back a regular one. I took one out of the other boxes and fixed it back. Now I am short a grease cap. I am posting a few more pictures showing the yoke straightener, broken cap removing (punch wouldn't work) and using the caliper.
I sprang my ankle bad yesterday evening chasing a few cows so will not be able to go to the barn for a few days.:( - but need to order a grease cap anyway.) bordercollie
 

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Good DEal
When you are done ship me your press lol.
I have to see if the Guy who put my joints in if his press is big enough to press out the ones on the bumper.
I knew I should have changed them and I did try but they wouldnt budge.
Next Payday Ill pick up the 2 joints and order the 4 bearings and seals so ILl have all the parts here when I get ready to do it.
Even 1 day with the machine down hurts me.
With my Multiple Sclerosis I depend on the machine for everything around here.
Keep all the digets crossed as I may need all the luck I can get.

Regards

Mark
 
You dont need a press to remove the u joints.....I new bordercollie would bend the yoke....there is a special tool that goes around the first yoke and curves in and puts pressure on the u joint...then u just use a socket that the cup will slide into and cover the other side of the yoke as u press it out.
Nobody has these tools even the dealer don't.
Why I said u just use a air chisel on the joint with the socket on the other end.....I have put them in the press just to hold the u joint tight then use the air chisel on the u joint itself.....then when u have one cup out u can press on the shat of the u joint to remove the other side without worry about bending the yoke.....just trying to make it simple deal as you can easy make it a long time mess that does not have to be......been there done that before...
I was shown how to do this by a guy that really new his stuff years ago when I was a Mechanic at a dealership for a chevy. dealer.

Art
 
Art , I only bent one yoke slightly, but the press was a real help in getting the frozen shafts out of the bumper too. I didn't have to buy anything since the press was my Dad's . One of those tools you're speaking of would have been nice to have laying around but I didn't so I used what I had. I used a caliper on the other u joints I removed and they were all o.k. . In some cases, I even had to push them part way out and spray with penetrant and reverse the order and do it again. I agree you just can't go crazy with the press. If I had to do this for a living, I would definitely get one of what your talking about. _ I hope I am through with this for a long while -once I get all the parts and finish this time. bordercollie
 
Hey man u did a good job....I used to use a chisel ground a u shape to fit the joint and use a big hammer....and I had the air chisel and never thought about it.....lol....till I was told different and makes it easyer on the hands.....still u did a very god job with what u had imo.....great job bordercollie.
They run those shafts on such a steep angle does not help long "longevity either.

Art
 
Well I was in the same boat as Bordercollie and I beat the daylights out of the spline trying to remove it from the axel and I had no luck.
Thats the only reason they didnt get changed when I did the other.
But now the inner has gone I have no choice to replace it.
Now The hard job is removing the stubborn thing and Hope the bearings are ok.
I cant think of any other way at this point of a way to remove the spline from the bumper other than a press but I am open to suggestions.

Mark
 
Mark I would put the nut on flush with the threads and use like a 1 inch bar of steel with a big hammer....as long as you keep bar lined up I think it will move out....a 2 by 4 soaks up to much energy....or if there is a pilot hole in the middle of the shaft put nut on flush and try air chisel if you have one.
Just be carefull and check that the nut is flush and try and move the nut after each blow so you don't mess up the threads....other than that you will have to take it to someone who has a press for that job.

Art
 
Also if you can put the nut on backwards so the cotter key is towards the other way so you don't mushroom it.

Art
 
I would even try heating up the bearing by the shaft with a tourch if I had to...to make it move as last result.
There no good anyway....keep the water hose close by as the rubber on the seals may start a little fire.

Art
 
when putting that stuff back together use anti-seize lubricant...makes things go back together easyer and next time u have to do the job....if there is a next time should make it much easyer.
Am thinking of eveything I can....lol

Art
 
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