PaulChristenson
Member
It has to do with working on slopes...
Going backwards
Going forwards
Nice hill...revivals Power-Trac 1850 mowers...
Not many tractor manufactures can do this...
Help I broke my tractor in half!!!
- Thread starter rangerdave
- Start date
It has to do with working on slopes...
Going backwards
Going forwards
Nice hill...revivals Power-Trac 1850 mowers...
Not many tractor manufactures can do this...
rangerdave
New member
I guess what I meant was that for Italian made tractors with 4 equal wheels and a low center of gravity with high horse power... I know of only 5 manufacturers that import to the US. Goldoni/John Deere and Antonio Carraro being the only two of the Italian type tractors with any kind of dealership/support presence...
Any kind of normal John Deere, Kubota, New Holland etc. for a similar HP would be a BIG tractor... 2-3 times the size of what I and my clients want...
Although I have been looking hard a a few of the New Holland lines for a dedicated field mower....
Any kind of normal John Deere, Kubota, New Holland etc. for a similar HP would be a BIG tractor... 2-3 times the size of what I and my clients want...
Although I have been looking hard a a few of the New Holland lines for a dedicated field mower....
quincy
Member
I know this is probably not what you want to hear but I'm going to say it anyway.....
I would have played dumb. You hit the representative with a very intelligent email but opened yourself up to litigation. Seems he's been through the lawsuit ring before and knows his way around.
I would hand this case to a lawyer right now and not do any more research on it.
Your approach should be... "dagummit, my tractors gone and broke in two and its only two years old....."
.... Let the legal people deal with this.
The last thing the supplier wants to deal with is bas press, especially if the manufacturer is looking for growth in the us market. I would be stunned if even a mediocre lawyer could not get an out of court settlement and have that part replaced FOC or at least at a massive discount. That is if he can work around your admitting to lifting the tractor with the loader (warranty void). One would hope that the tractor was designed to cope with stresses beyond those applied during normal duties?
It sounds like you use the tractor for business purposes, so the lawyer should also claim for loss of earnings on your behalf. You bought the tractor for your business, it broke in two, that tractor is now out of action. every day that tractor is not working is lost money as far as you are concerned. This remuneration could go towards the lawyers fees at least...
Its up to you. Seems anything you have done so far is only damaging your case. This problem will only be resolved by lawyer, our speculation on a forum will not help you.
If I were you, I would also ask Doc to delete this thread. A clever defence lawyer could use this information against you if he happened to go searching the internet for information about your tractor. If he googled "Antonio Carraro TRX 8400 68", he WILL be directed to this thread and all the other forums you asked the same question on...
I know you came on the internet trying to find out if there were more cases of Antonio Carraro tractors breaking in half. Sounds like they are a rare machine.
Play dumb, even though you're obviously not. Your tractor should not experience a complete failure after only 2 years, and they know that. The guy you emailed thinks he's clever but he is not. Don't contact him any more. Any correspondence with him will only hurt your cause. He sent a "hard ball" reply to your email to scare you off.
Sorry for being so blunt, I dont mean any disrespect.
I hate lawyers and having to go down the legal route with anything, but it seems like this is the direction you should consider to get your problem resolved.
I hope things turn out good for you.
Q
I would have played dumb. You hit the representative with a very intelligent email but opened yourself up to litigation. Seems he's been through the lawsuit ring before and knows his way around.
I would hand this case to a lawyer right now and not do any more research on it.
Your approach should be... "dagummit, my tractors gone and broke in two and its only two years old....."
.... Let the legal people deal with this.
The last thing the supplier wants to deal with is bas press, especially if the manufacturer is looking for growth in the us market. I would be stunned if even a mediocre lawyer could not get an out of court settlement and have that part replaced FOC or at least at a massive discount. That is if he can work around your admitting to lifting the tractor with the loader (warranty void). One would hope that the tractor was designed to cope with stresses beyond those applied during normal duties?
It sounds like you use the tractor for business purposes, so the lawyer should also claim for loss of earnings on your behalf. You bought the tractor for your business, it broke in two, that tractor is now out of action. every day that tractor is not working is lost money as far as you are concerned. This remuneration could go towards the lawyers fees at least...
Its up to you. Seems anything you have done so far is only damaging your case. This problem will only be resolved by lawyer, our speculation on a forum will not help you.
If I were you, I would also ask Doc to delete this thread. A clever defence lawyer could use this information against you if he happened to go searching the internet for information about your tractor. If he googled "Antonio Carraro TRX 8400 68", he WILL be directed to this thread and all the other forums you asked the same question on...
I know you came on the internet trying to find out if there were more cases of Antonio Carraro tractors breaking in half. Sounds like they are a rare machine.
Play dumb, even though you're obviously not. Your tractor should not experience a complete failure after only 2 years, and they know that. The guy you emailed thinks he's clever but he is not. Don't contact him any more. Any correspondence with him will only hurt your cause. He sent a "hard ball" reply to your email to scare you off.
Sorry for being so blunt, I dont mean any disrespect.
I hate lawyers and having to go down the legal route with anything, but it seems like this is the direction you should consider to get your problem resolved.
I hope things turn out good for you.
Q
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rangerdave
New member
Thank you for all of the supporting e-mails and concern.
I would like to show you why I got so excited about buying this tractor.... I spent 2 years looking for a new tractor and I was in a position to buy new. When the dealer I had been working with sent me the Antonio Carraro Tractor People magazine, I saw the tractor I wanted... The TRX set up with the forestry package!!!
I also took the dealers advise and bought the Sigma loader that was designed for it.
Also, I found this picture in their magazine that shows a tractor completely lifted off of the ground with BOTH the FEL & the backhoe... I never thought that it was an issue until now...
I would like to show you why I got so excited about buying this tractor.... I spent 2 years looking for a new tractor and I was in a position to buy new. When the dealer I had been working with sent me the Antonio Carraro Tractor People magazine, I saw the tractor I wanted... The TRX set up with the forestry package!!!
I also took the dealers advise and bought the Sigma loader that was designed for it.
Also, I found this picture in their magazine that shows a tractor completely lifted off of the ground with BOTH the FEL & the backhoe... I never thought that it was an issue until now...
Attachments
Snapped my pride and joy.
Well rangerdave my deepest sympathy for the situation. But you are not alone. Many like myself need the versatility of these " rough terrain, multifunctional work platforms". Reverse the seat and have a good view of the implements, like a rear mounted FEL is a delight.I in fact have no bad or neck issues with constantly turning around to see the discs or plow working... Yep, I watch the implements whilst driving backwards, and drive according to where I have been to stay straight. The earlier Trigone TriTrac 7700 4x4 was a tough beast. I could not wait for the latest Ergit series. The Ergit TRX 8400 is a magnificent work platform. I am extremely disappointed to tell you that three other cases have come to light with castings snapping!!! Earlier models had steel transmission casings, then one steel and one cast iron casing and no problems.. BUT with two cast iron transmission casings, some how, they snap.
At the moment its is every one for themselves. Or should we unit?
Well rangerdave my deepest sympathy for the situation. But you are not alone. Many like myself need the versatility of these " rough terrain, multifunctional work platforms". Reverse the seat and have a good view of the implements, like a rear mounted FEL is a delight.I in fact have no bad or neck issues with constantly turning around to see the discs or plow working... Yep, I watch the implements whilst driving backwards, and drive according to where I have been to stay straight. The earlier Trigone TriTrac 7700 4x4 was a tough beast. I could not wait for the latest Ergit series. The Ergit TRX 8400 is a magnificent work platform. I am extremely disappointed to tell you that three other cases have come to light with castings snapping!!! Earlier models had steel transmission casings, then one steel and one cast iron casing and no problems.. BUT with two cast iron transmission casings, some how, they snap.
At the moment its is every one for themselves. Or should we unit?
I say all you guys with broken tractors should get one lawyer to represent you in a "class action" lawsuit. It will get much more attention when there are at least a few of you with the same problem. I know though....takes money.
Darn, heck of a first post.
My interest in this is more than casual. We could be looking for a bigger tractor for the farm next year and the Carraro 84 Series was interesting to say the least, especially with the neck and back problems I have been having this year. I thought that this tractor might allow me to keep working at the farm since I wouldn't have to spend a lot of time turning round to watch the implements behind. You know the deal, work one day and take 2 days off to recover. Getting old is a bugger.
I went to their website and the dealer locater wasn't working properly. Every time I clicked on Texas, it gave me the address of some dealer in Montana. I emailed the address given in the website for a local dealer. As I remember it, there is one within easy driving distance of me in East Texas but they haven't replied yet and it's been 5 days. After reading your story, the comments by Badger69 and the attitude of their rep in California, I don't know if I want to know where the dealership is. I may just continue looking elsewhere.
My interest in this is more than casual. We could be looking for a bigger tractor for the farm next year and the Carraro 84 Series was interesting to say the least, especially with the neck and back problems I have been having this year. I thought that this tractor might allow me to keep working at the farm since I wouldn't have to spend a lot of time turning round to watch the implements behind. You know the deal, work one day and take 2 days off to recover. Getting old is a bugger.
I went to their website and the dealer locater wasn't working properly. Every time I clicked on Texas, it gave me the address of some dealer in Montana. I emailed the address given in the website for a local dealer. As I remember it, there is one within easy driving distance of me in East Texas but they haven't replied yet and it's been 5 days. After reading your story, the comments by Badger69 and the attitude of their rep in California, I don't know if I want to know where the dealership is. I may just continue looking elsewhere.
rangerdave
New member
Very interesting, try to get some pictures of the damaged tractors if you can and post them.... How did you find out about the others? PM Me about any details you don't want public... "THEY" are watching the other tractor sites I am monitoring for information... US, UK & Italy... last count 25,000 views...
What is interesting is that there was a dealer that had a lot of information that she had given to me and had set up a deal with the company to get my tractor fixed..... She has gone away quietly and I fear "THEY" got to her....
The only way to find out about is to ask... I've been getting the story about how "in the entire history of Antonio Carraro a tractor has never just broken in half" and that it is my fault that it had happened...
If what you say is true, This changes things....
I reread your post and this part struck me as really strange. I have a small Kubota and I will agree it is small at 24hp, but lifting the front end off the ground with the FEL in order to get the support stands down is a recommended step in the procedure to remove the loader. So, he obviously doesn't know Kubota tractors. It sounds as if he is adopting the "deny everything and make them prove it" defense. I need to go check the removal procedures for the other tractors because I have never taken the whole loader off them.
Yup, I just checked the L4740 and it's the same thing. "Lift the weight off the front wheels with the bucket". I assume it's the same for all Kubotas. I don't see how you can get the support stands in position without raising the front of the tractor with the bucket.
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I have been reading the rangerdave problems and all of the replies. I would like to throw a few queries.
A: Rangerdave has had Pasquali machines
1. Were they articulated?
2. What were the transmission casing made of.
3. Pasquali motor-cultivators (two wheel tractors) are made by BCS; so did BCS make the Pasquali 933 + 462E? (BCS seems to make the Ferrari + BCS today). Some factory seems to produce Goldini and A. Carraro their own brand. A. Carraro seem to have the spare parts delivery down to a fine art worldwide ( I hope for you all that the issues are resolved, for the brands sake especially).
B: Bolts Issue: according to A.C. procedure the bolts are glued in with (Loctite) at the factory and torque wrench fastened. We all know a bolt otherwise needs a spring washer and torque wrench fastening.
C: All tractor design goes back to around 1910 with petrol engines and all have a RIGID body frame. Unlike the ARTICULATED Antonio Carraro Ergit series.
A Rigid frame distributes all the stresses (like all the bricks in a wall, each part carrying some of the load stress). Is it possible that the Articulated frame transmits all the load stress to 50% of the frame; where some section fails through metal fatigue?
D: The talk of FEL lifting for jack placement raises (no pun intended) the question if it can lift the machine: the load is not enough to have the hydraulic spool relief value dump oil back to the tank. Secondly most FEL need to be 'jiggled' to come out of the quick hitch system, buy the bucket rolling up or down.. All though most tractor brands have the FEL attached to a frame onto the main Rigid frame between front and back wheels. A. Carraro have FEL on the front axle for front mount or on a rear end frame for rear mounting.
Leave you all with that. Bitters help with digestion.
A: Rangerdave has had Pasquali machines
1. Were they articulated?
2. What were the transmission casing made of.
3. Pasquali motor-cultivators (two wheel tractors) are made by BCS; so did BCS make the Pasquali 933 + 462E? (BCS seems to make the Ferrari + BCS today). Some factory seems to produce Goldini and A. Carraro their own brand. A. Carraro seem to have the spare parts delivery down to a fine art worldwide ( I hope for you all that the issues are resolved, for the brands sake especially).
B: Bolts Issue: according to A.C. procedure the bolts are glued in with (Loctite) at the factory and torque wrench fastened. We all know a bolt otherwise needs a spring washer and torque wrench fastening.
C: All tractor design goes back to around 1910 with petrol engines and all have a RIGID body frame. Unlike the ARTICULATED Antonio Carraro Ergit series.
A Rigid frame distributes all the stresses (like all the bricks in a wall, each part carrying some of the load stress). Is it possible that the Articulated frame transmits all the load stress to 50% of the frame; where some section fails through metal fatigue?
D: The talk of FEL lifting for jack placement raises (no pun intended) the question if it can lift the machine: the load is not enough to have the hydraulic spool relief value dump oil back to the tank. Secondly most FEL need to be 'jiggled' to come out of the quick hitch system, buy the bucket rolling up or down.. All though most tractor brands have the FEL attached to a frame onto the main Rigid frame between front and back wheels. A. Carraro have FEL on the front axle for front mount or on a rear end frame for rear mounting.
Leave you all with that. Bitters help with digestion.
rangerdave
New member
I just spent a long time replying to this quote only to have it evaporate....
second try, but MUCH shorter.
Thanks Coadan... I keep Mr. Creatsote's Bucket handy for when I need to throw up thinking about how much more money I've lost on buying a new tractor than what I've invested in the crashing stock market......
(Monty Python humor....)I've worked my 3 Pasquali tractors harder then the TRX ever saw. They were 12- 18 years old, NEVER had anything malfunction, and the center sections were real steel and articultated... (if I wasn't 6000 miles away I would post pictures of the Pasquali frame.)
From what I know BCS bought out both Ferrari and Pasquali, but you can still buy a blue BCS, a green Ferrari, or a yellow Pasquali.... Same tractors. Just like how you can buy a green John Deere or red Goldoni.
I won't get into my thoughts about how I was sold on the TRX "rigid" frame.... I'll let you guys discuss the finer points of REAL cast housing rigid frame joinery VS. the upside down "U" shaped side stress bolted housing to the rear end.....
I'm still mystified about how they can tell me that the tractor was not designed to lift it's own weight with the front end loader (voiding warranties, etc..) and list a 4100lb lifting capacity (essentially it's weight) off of the rear end!!!!!!!
OrchardPete
New member
I'm sorry to learn about the trouble that rangerdave faced with his tractor. I own myself a couple Antonio Carraro's and I'm about to buy the third one still this year. The first one I've bought three years ago, which is a TRG with 85HP. By now it shows 3200 hrs and I had no major problems. The second one was a TGF which I worked harder with. Unfortunately I got an older not updated version and the pto shaft quit just recently after 3000hrs. I was told that the "new" TGF's have already an update where the lifetime was very much extended! Even though the tractor was out of warranty, my dealer and Antonio Carraro took care of the problem and repaired the tractor at no cost installing even the update!
I could not expect better service from anyone of the majors. The new John Deere is actually a Goldoni, which some of my friends had and faced nothing but trouble!
I bought the Antonio's after I have seen them working at one of the major orchard operations in Washington. I think buy now they run 50+ Antonio Carraro's and keep buying replacing their Deere's just like other orchards in Washington.
I can only recommend the Antonio Carraro tractors since you won't find anything similar in the industry. I would not go back to a standard Deere or Kubota tractor as they just aren't safe if you have some steeper ground and won't pull nearly as the Carraro will. Also the parts support seems to be great now. Everything I needed so far I got from my dealer, either right away or next day!
Don't know if rangerdave faced the problem because of the loader or maybe just because of no dealer support. However, I understand and appreciate the design of the tractor, which will do more for me than any other tractor but I also understand that it's not a loader tractor because of the oscilation, great feature, makes really the difference. So in other words, you can't compare loader capacities with standard tractors. Also the rear lifting capacity has nothing to do with a lifting capacity of a front loader. That should be too obvious for anybody who's got at least some technical knowledge.
I also understand he bought the tractor in California. Long ways to VT!!!! Why did he not buy in the Northeast??
I could not expect better service from anyone of the majors. The new John Deere is actually a Goldoni, which some of my friends had and faced nothing but trouble!
I bought the Antonio's after I have seen them working at one of the major orchard operations in Washington. I think buy now they run 50+ Antonio Carraro's and keep buying replacing their Deere's just like other orchards in Washington.
I can only recommend the Antonio Carraro tractors since you won't find anything similar in the industry. I would not go back to a standard Deere or Kubota tractor as they just aren't safe if you have some steeper ground and won't pull nearly as the Carraro will. Also the parts support seems to be great now. Everything I needed so far I got from my dealer, either right away or next day!
Don't know if rangerdave faced the problem because of the loader or maybe just because of no dealer support. However, I understand and appreciate the design of the tractor, which will do more for me than any other tractor but I also understand that it's not a loader tractor because of the oscilation, great feature, makes really the difference. So in other words, you can't compare loader capacities with standard tractors. Also the rear lifting capacity has nothing to do with a lifting capacity of a front loader. That should be too obvious for anybody who's got at least some technical knowledge.
I also understand he bought the tractor in California. Long ways to VT!!!! Why did he not buy in the Northeast??
Orchardpete: BUD! reading the way you write sounds like you might by a Italian working for the A.C.spa. "I own myself a couple". Come on bud show photos of your machines!!
It well may be that orchards are going that way... Who would not want a machine that can do so much. BUT all brands show on Y-tube what their machines can do, A.C. does not.
Yes it turns out that;
1. ALL A. Carraro models (Mowers to heavier duty TRX) have the SAME castings for the transmission casings??!! These have already been thickened since issues started.. A third update is now rolling into Europe!!! So there is an issue with snapping castings.
2. Your understanding of FEL on the rear lacks understanding of oscillating machines (do you have one or one with a FEL?) You stated
"Also the rear lifting capacity has nothing to do with a lifting capacity of a front loader. That should be too obvious for anybody who's got at least some technical knowledge."
Well the lifting capacity might be the same. But, mounted on the rear all the FEL load and stresses remain in that half of the machine... (rigid machines distribute the load over the whole frame). The 100% stresses on half of the machine could be the down fall of this design. Where does the twist stress go with a full FEL load on uneven ground? To the castings.
By the way A.C. spa are trying to blame loaders and or operators. Rangerdave has a Sigma loader which is specified by A.C. spa and sold by the distributors. Now its Bonatti ( see the advert it lifts the machine off the ground with FEL and backhoe jacks!!). See A.C spa. magazines that others refer to and most countries have a FEL producer making FEL for A.C.spa like Burder in Australia which makes them for Kubota etc.
It all probably comes down to A.C. machines should not have FEL for any other task than moving mulch or sand. A.C.spa say " driving into the stockpile incorrectly will cause shock load!!" Buddy a TRX should be supplied with Bisalloy steel casings for slight cost increase and no problems would occur. There has been false advertising with the top of their range; TRX machines.
A load of B.S.
They are trying the ' divide and rule' between the operators with severe problems. The operators are loosing out! But a brand looses more by treating clients with contempt.
Happy 'picking' orchardpete.
It well may be that orchards are going that way... Who would not want a machine that can do so much. BUT all brands show on Y-tube what their machines can do, A.C. does not.
Yes it turns out that;
1. ALL A. Carraro models (Mowers to heavier duty TRX) have the SAME castings for the transmission casings??!! These have already been thickened since issues started.. A third update is now rolling into Europe!!! So there is an issue with snapping castings.
2. Your understanding of FEL on the rear lacks understanding of oscillating machines (do you have one or one with a FEL?) You stated
"Also the rear lifting capacity has nothing to do with a lifting capacity of a front loader. That should be too obvious for anybody who's got at least some technical knowledge."
Well the lifting capacity might be the same. But, mounted on the rear all the FEL load and stresses remain in that half of the machine... (rigid machines distribute the load over the whole frame). The 100% stresses on half of the machine could be the down fall of this design. Where does the twist stress go with a full FEL load on uneven ground? To the castings.
By the way A.C. spa are trying to blame loaders and or operators. Rangerdave has a Sigma loader which is specified by A.C. spa and sold by the distributors. Now its Bonatti ( see the advert it lifts the machine off the ground with FEL and backhoe jacks!!). See A.C spa. magazines that others refer to and most countries have a FEL producer making FEL for A.C.spa like Burder in Australia which makes them for Kubota etc.
It all probably comes down to A.C. machines should not have FEL for any other task than moving mulch or sand. A.C.spa say " driving into the stockpile incorrectly will cause shock load!!" Buddy a TRX should be supplied with Bisalloy steel casings for slight cost increase and no problems would occur. There has been false advertising with the top of their range; TRX machines.
A load of B.S.
They are trying the ' divide and rule' between the operators with severe problems. The operators are loosing out! But a brand looses more by treating clients with contempt.
Happy 'picking' orchardpete.
PaulChristenson
Member
Orchard Pete...fill out your profile and tell us a little more about your tractor ops
Until then..this is my take on your posting...
Until then..this is my take on your posting...
rangerdave
New member
OK, I'm back from vacation....
Here's a picture of my Pasquali center section... It's real steel square steel tubing that has been stacked and welded.... Compare that to the cast steel housing that is squeezed/compressed against the rear housing... Look at how everything broke around where the bolts are located and how the break originated from the bottom to the top.
Here's a picture of my Pasquali center section... It's real steel square steel tubing that has been stacked and welded.... Compare that to the cast steel housing that is squeezed/compressed against the rear housing... Look at how everything broke around where the bolts are located and how the break originated from the bottom to the top.
Attachments
rangerdave
New member
PS:
I also included the material thickness of each housing to compare....
Note how there is NO bottom reinforcement to the Carraro housing... It is essentially an upside down "U" that goes from thick on top to thin on bottom...
In so many words... I was utterly shocked to actually see how it was designed for the first time since the whole tractor is covered with sheet metal....
What is additionally frustrating is that the genius engineers that designed the tractor made everything very difficult to work on.... For instance...
- You couldn't just unbolt the service brake cable from the bottom of the service brake and pull the cable with the thimble through the hole in the casing.... the hole is too small. You can't unfasten the other end because the cable is swaged... The only way to remove the pivoting center section is to CUT the perfectly good service brake cable!!!!!!! Then BUY a NEW one, install it and swage it in place, per the service manual... WTF!!!
-To add insult to injury, you can't just unbolt the center section from the front end like you can with the rear end..... EVERYTHING has to be removed from the front end - engine, front end loader, clutch and pto components - in order to get at the retaining system for the center housing!!!!
Our shop has the resources to mend and improve the design to make it stronger so that it would never break again... and I was contemplating a step by step pictoral if I do it.... but I am loath to delve into a complete dissasembally... Had it actually been my fault, I wouldn't be burning all my time on the forum, it would have been already taken care of....
This should not have happened. Period.
I also included the material thickness of each housing to compare....
Note how there is NO bottom reinforcement to the Carraro housing... It is essentially an upside down "U" that goes from thick on top to thin on bottom...
In so many words... I was utterly shocked to actually see how it was designed for the first time since the whole tractor is covered with sheet metal....
What is additionally frustrating is that the genius engineers that designed the tractor made everything very difficult to work on.... For instance...
- You couldn't just unbolt the service brake cable from the bottom of the service brake and pull the cable with the thimble through the hole in the casing.... the hole is too small. You can't unfasten the other end because the cable is swaged... The only way to remove the pivoting center section is to CUT the perfectly good service brake cable!!!!!!! Then BUY a NEW one, install it and swage it in place, per the service manual... WTF!!!
-To add insult to injury, you can't just unbolt the center section from the front end like you can with the rear end..... EVERYTHING has to be removed from the front end - engine, front end loader, clutch and pto components - in order to get at the retaining system for the center housing!!!!
Our shop has the resources to mend and improve the design to make it stronger so that it would never break again... and I was contemplating a step by step pictoral if I do it.... but I am loath to delve into a complete dissasembally... Had it actually been my fault, I wouldn't be burning all my time on the forum, it would have been already taken care of....
This should not have happened. Period.
I'm no engineer, but I've dairy farmed all my life & do all my own repair work. In all that time, that has to be the weakest tractor joint I've ever seen. Without it being a full boxed section, any twisting effect has to work on that cast iron, which the cast is way too thin even if it were fully boxed instead of a "U". To break one of our Massey tractors in half, we'd likely have to do something that would leave us dead anyway, so we'd not be able to post about it. Bad design/weak design. Bad co. support/bad business.
Rangerdave you certainly needed a holiday from this issue. "They" try to wear you down into submission. But, your photos tell it all..... Pasquali solid pressed plate housing welded (are the latest models still made like this by BCS?)By the way internet searching shows that BCS sell the brand BCS in Australia + New Zealand and the Brand Pasquali in the U.K. and U.S.A.
A.Carraro. spa casings used to be made the same way (the Trigone series is still working hard!!) But engineers and accountants go for minimization to get greater cost benefit to them.. But that decision affects the clients and damages the brand. 450 Bisalloy steel plate pressed casings would do the trick (or 450 bisalloy plate welded, milled and bushed; but that would cost too much). I wonder if the proprietors (Antonio Carraro and his family are actually informed by the engineering staff of this issue or is staff covering it up because the percentages are still to small for discussion higher up the food chain??)
A.C.spa did build a new special casting facility according to their magazines for the new factory making the Ergit series.
In another thread a Mahindra tractor clients had an serious issue after warranty the dealers would not solve; eventually in U.S.A. and else where Mahindra head quarters totally fixed at their cost and in one case replaced the tractor for the clients!! All subsequent thread replies stated they respected and would think of buying that brand.
Everyone can make mistakes, even in design. My daddy taught me to own up quickly so ma would be surprised and not use that spoon.(did daddy like the spoon?) God darn Antonio get to the engineering department and kick ....
A.Carraro. spa casings used to be made the same way (the Trigone series is still working hard!!) But engineers and accountants go for minimization to get greater cost benefit to them.. But that decision affects the clients and damages the brand. 450 Bisalloy steel plate pressed casings would do the trick (or 450 bisalloy plate welded, milled and bushed; but that would cost too much). I wonder if the proprietors (Antonio Carraro and his family are actually informed by the engineering staff of this issue or is staff covering it up because the percentages are still to small for discussion higher up the food chain??)
A.C.spa did build a new special casting facility according to their magazines for the new factory making the Ergit series.
In another thread a Mahindra tractor clients had an serious issue after warranty the dealers would not solve; eventually in U.S.A. and else where Mahindra head quarters totally fixed at their cost and in one case replaced the tractor for the clients!! All subsequent thread replies stated they respected and would think of buying that brand.
Everyone can make mistakes, even in design. My daddy taught me to own up quickly so ma would be surprised and not use that spoon.(did daddy like the spoon?) God darn Antonio get to the engineering department and kick ....
OrchardPete
New member
coadan: from where I come from, Switzerland, we are treating people with 
and so do most people here in Washington. I don't know where you come from!!!
Anyhow, you sound like you're the master and know everything so I guess you must own a fleet of many tractors....
However, I'm not affiliated with A.C. nor do I know people from the factory. All I wanted to make aware after coming across this thread, is to express my satisfaction about these tractors from Antonio Carraro and I guess I'm not the only one as I read they produce about 7000 or so tractors per year. So I assume all those people are stupid then
I just felt bad reading those comments about one tractor with problems and suggesting that the brand is no good! To me Antonio Carraro provided excellent service and the equipment is awesome!
All I can say is that I'm a satisfied owner and I know quite some people up here who are very satisfied as well.
Again, sorry for rangerdave's trouble though!
Cheers
and so do most people here in Washington. I don't know where you come from!!!Anyhow, you sound like you're the master and know everything so I guess you must own a fleet of many tractors....
However, I'm not affiliated with A.C. nor do I know people from the factory. All I wanted to make aware after coming across this thread, is to express my satisfaction about these tractors from Antonio Carraro and I guess I'm not the only one as I read they produce about 7000 or so tractors per year. So I assume all those people are stupid then
I just felt bad reading those comments about one tractor with problems and suggesting that the brand is no good! To me Antonio Carraro provided excellent service and the equipment is awesome!
All I can say is that I'm a satisfied owner and I know quite some people up here who are very satisfied as well.
Again, sorry for rangerdave's trouble though!
Cheers