Thanks Kanook. On the RTV,I gotta have my duct tape alright... and my pliers and my tools of all sorts ... haha and this is really true.. I went by an old tenant house on this place( that had been empty for over 30 years ) today and got the kitchen sink out and had it on the RTV all afternoon- turned upside down -across the toolbox and sprayer- till I got home. I really did have a kitchen sink on the RTV> true story! I'll be using that sink after I make a frame, to wash my greens outside. It has a porcelain drain area on each side. If you haven't guessed, I am also a pack rat... in a good way....... bordercollie