Someone care to explain to me...

joe lasky

Member
about those pirates holding off a Navy ship?

Ok, we've got some pirates with AK's and perhaps some RPG's on the high seas, what else have they got?

Yep, perhaps a hostage, but in that area of the world, sorry Charlie.

I'm just scratching my head when I heard news accounts that the U.S Navy is waiting for more ships to arrive to handle this "situation".

I consider myself a pretty reasonable guy in world politics (AKA war is not always the answer), however, sometimes you just got to light em up and make a point. Hmmm, wonder what all other other pirates are going to be thinking now.
 
Is the captain of a civilian ship "one of the navy's own"? I sincerely don't know.

When does the military negotiate with terrorists?

Is the captured captain considered a POW?

One could argure that in wartime, there is a fine line between a terrorist and a hero, however, pirates are taking vilolent action for financial gain at the expense of civilians (I would however be curious if any of that ransom money is finding it's way back to some of the warloards).

I could be wrong (as usual), but when drug runners on the seas get a .50 cal shot across their bow, they know they can't outrun the force wanting to stop them, and they stop, becuase they know if they don't, they will be sunk with the chance of losing their lives (sorry, I was aiming for the engine but I accidently got the boat:D ) Perhaps drug runners should take hostages on the seas so if by chance they get stopped by the Coast Guard or Navy they can negotiate their way out of the situation?

I just find it a little pathetic when a bunch of thugs with small arms in a small boat with one hostage can make a world superpower Navy need to have "back up".

I had heard that the pirates are now coming together to bring in more hostages (I'm guessing to have more "negotiating power"?). Sometimes buying time does not help, becuase the situation has to end one way IMO, with the pirates captured or dead (you keep letting thieves steel, and they will).

Then again, perhaps the shipping companies can afford it (paying the ransom) and it's nothing more than a little headache for them.
 
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Situations change dramtically, once the world media is envolved. The prior military in me, suggests a strike to set the example and hope for minimal collateral damage. Why we haven’t done this is (probably) the reluctance to appear even less popular to our NATO allies and UN members (?).

You think maybe this inaction could be very similar to Waco and the Koresh ‘incident’ just with an international audience? Did we cheer or deplore the French rushing in, killing two pirates and one hostage? WTH was that all about anyway? They did something….because we didn’t, or want too?

Sorry, but I really do believe that military intervention should be quick and decisive based on real time intelligence and not by popularity. Caveing in because of other nations scrutiny just doesn’t put our own best interest up front.
 
The hostage and pirates are adrift in an enclosed life boat. They have time. Why rush it and kill the hostage. They can easily wait them out without negotiating. The only thing the pirates can now negotiate for is their lives.
 
You think maybe this inaction could be very similar to Waco and the Koresh ‘incident’ just with an international audience?

The big difference between Waco (and Ruby Ridge for that matter) is that the military was not involved. For myself, those two situations we're nothing more than sanctioned murder by an inept goverment agency.

suggests a strike to set the example and hope for minimal collateral damage.

My opinion as well.

The hostage and pirates are adrift in an enclosed life boat. They have time. Why rush it and kill the hostage. They can easily wait them out without negotiating. The only thing the pirates can now negotiate for is their lives.

As I mentioned, I thought now more pirates we're bringing in more of thier hostages for negotiating. Perhaps I'm incorrect on this.

IMO the longer the U.S Navy waits on this, the weaker we will appear to the pirates. Give them a set time, don't meet that time, take them out.

Like I said though, I would be curious to see if the warloards off the coast have anything to do with this. Remember that country? Not exactly a shining moment for the Clinton adminstration and the way they tied our military's hands up.

Heck, why don't the shipping companies just pay a "fee" so they can use the water?
 
Bottom line, sink the boat.

There are numerous reasons why men carry guns, and if those men are willing to die for what they believe in, no matter how much firepower you have, the only thing you will accomplish is destroying the men. The question is if these pirates are motivated by money or by an ideology.

Personally, I think they are theives, but I honestly don't know. The only thing you can do is kill them to make a point for others who may try to take the same actions in the future. From the limited reading on the piracy going on in that area, seems that the best paying job in the area is to get some guns and a boat and go take a ship hostage for ransom money.

The latest from what I've read of the situation.

MOMBASA, Kenya – U.S. warships and helicopters stalked a lifeboat holding an American sea captain and his four Somali captors Sunday as a Somali official and others reported negotiations for his release have broken down.

The district commissioner of the central Mudug region said talks went on all day Saturday, with clan elders from his area talking by satellite telephone and through a translator with Americans, but collapsed late Saturday night.

"The negotiations between the elders and American officials have broken down. The reason is American officials wanted to arrest the pirates in Puntland and elders refused the arrest of the pirates," said the commissioner, Abdi Aziz Aw Yusuf. He said he organized initial contacts between the elders and the Americans.

Two other Somalis, one involved in the negotiations and another in contact with the pirates, also said the talks collapsed because of the U.S. insistence that the pirates be arrested and brought to justice.
Nineteen American sailors guarded by U.S. Navy Seals reached safe harbor in Kenya's northeast port of Mombasa on Saturday night, exhilarated by freedom but mourning the absence of Capt. Richard Phillips, who sacrificed himself as a hostage to save them.

"He saved our lives!" second mate Ken Quinn, of Bradenton, Florida, declared from the ship deck. "He's a hero."

ATM Reza, a crew member who said he was first to see the pirates board the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama on Wednesday. described how the bandits "came on with hooks and ropes and were firing in the air."

He was responding to a throng of reporters shouting questions from shore about the ordeal that began with Somali pirates hauling themselves up from a small boat bobbing on the surface of the Indian Ocean far below.

As the pirates shot in the air, Phillips, 53, of Underhill, Vermont, told his crew to lock themselves in a cabin and surrendered himself to safeguard his men, crew members said.

Phillips was still held hostage in an enclosed lifeboat Sunday by four pirates being closely watched by U.S. warships and a helicopter in an increasingly tense standoff. The lifeboat is out of fuel and drifting.

A Pentagon spokesman said Saturday night that negotiations to free Phillips were continuing.

But Abdiwali Ali Tar said they were deadlocked. "Some local elders as well as our company have been involved in the negotiations but things seem to be deadlocked because the pirates want to make sure to be in a safe location first with the captain — either on one of the ships their colleagues hold or Somali coastal villages — but the Americans will not allow that," said Tar, the head of a private security firm acting as the coast guard in northeast Puntland region, a haven for pirates.

Talks had begun Thursday with the captain of the USS Bainbridge talking to the pirates under instruction from FBI hostage negotiators on board the U.S. destroyer.

It was not clear where the lifeboat was on Sunday. But a statement from Maersk Line, owner of the Maersk Alabama, which Phillips captains, said "the U.S. Navy had sight contact" of Phillips earlier Sunday — apparently when the pirates opened the hatches.

A pirate who says he is associated with the gang holding Phillips, Ahmed Mohamed Nur, told The Associated Press that the pirates say "helicopters continue to fly over their heads in the daylight and in the night they are under the focus of a spotlight from a warship."

He spoke by satellite phone from Harardhere, a port and pirate stronghold where a fisherman said helicopters flew over the town Sunday morning and a warship was looming on the horizon. The fisherman, Abdi Sheikh Muse, said that could be an indication the lifeboat may be near to shore.

The U.S. Navy has assumed the pirates would try to get their hostage to shore, where they can hide him on Somalia's lawless soil and be in a stronger position to negotiate a ransom.
Three U.S. warships were within easy reach of the lifeboat on Saturday, but fears of endangering Phillips' life limit their ability to use their overwhelming firepower. The pirates have threatened to kill Phillips if attacked.

On Friday, the French navy freed a sailboat seized off Somalia last week by other pirates, but one of the five hostages was killed.

Early Saturday, the pirates holding Phillips in the lifeboat fired a few shots at a small U.S. Navy vessel that had approached, a U.S. military official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

The official said the U.S. sailors did not return fire, the Navy vessel turned away and no one was hurt. He said the vessel had not been attempting a rescue. The pirates are believed armed with pistols and AK-47 assault rifles.

Phillips jumped out of the lifeboat Friday and tried to swim for his freedom but was recaptured when a pirate fired an automatic weapon at or near him, according to U.S. Defense Department officials speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to talk about the unfolding operations.

Emphasizing the U.S. stand on bringing pirates to justice, U.S. Coast Guard chief Adm. Thad Allen said Sunday that "an international legal framework" is needed. Speaking on ABC's "This Week" program, Allen said "What you really have to have is a coordinating mechanism that ultimately brings these pirates to court where they can be held accountable."

The United States has signed, but not ratified, the U.N.-sponsored Law of the Sea, which allows signatories to bring pirates arrested in any part of the world to trial in their countries. France, for example, is holding alleged pirates arrested off Somali waters for trial.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has promised to work to get the treaty ratified. The United States originally objected, during the Cold War, that the treaty provisions militated against a free market. More recently it objected to the treaty's regime governing exploitation of minerals of the deep seabed. Lately, treaty critics claim it would impinge on U.S. sovereignty.

In Mombasa, meanwhile, the Alabama crew described how they overpowered the pirates.

Reza, a father of one from Hartford, Connecticut, said that after the pirates boarded, he had led one to the engine room where he stabbed him in the hand with an ice pick and tied him up.

The crew have told family members by phone that they took one pirate hostage before giving him up in the hope their captain would be released. Instead, the Somalis fled with Phillips to the lifeboat.

Maersk President John Reinhart said from Norfolk, Virginia, that the ship was still a crime scene and the crewmen could not leave until the FBI investigates the attack.

"When I spoke to the crew, they won't consider it done when they board a plane and come home," Reinhart said. "They won't consider it done until the captain is back, nor will we."

Other bandits, among hundreds who have made the Gulf of Aden the world's most dangerous waterway, seized an Italian tugboat off Somalia's north coast Saturday as it was pulling barges, said Shona Lowe, a spokeswoman at NATO's Northwood maritime command center outside London.

The Foreign Ministry in Rome confirmed 10 of the 16 crew members are Italian. The others are five Romanians and a Croatian, according to Micoperi, the Italian company that owns the ship.

A piracy expert said the two hijackings did not appear related.

"This is just the Somali pirate machine in full flow," said Graeme Gibbon-Brooks, founder of Dryad Maritime Intelligence Ltd.

In Phillips' hometown, the Rev. Charles Danielson of the St. Thomas Church said the congregation would continue to pray for Phillips and his family, who are members, and he would encourage "people to find hope in the triumph of good over evil."

Reinhart said he spoke with Phillips' wife, Andrea, who is surrounded by family and two company employees who were sent to support her.

"She's a brave woman," Reinhart said. "And she has one favor to ask: 'Do what you have to do to bring Richard home safely.' That means don't make a mistake, folks. We have to be perfect in our execution."

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It looks like the Captain has been rescued and 3 out of the 4 pirates are dead. And the 4th is in custody.
 
Grateful the captain came out alive.

My money would of been on four pirates and one hostage dead. Wouldn't of thought that the captain would be able to get away.

Well, guess it's one small victory for Obama.
 
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