landrover 90

M

Mith

Active member
Anyone familiar with these?

Just went to look at one at a dealer. Beyond signs of rust on the chassis I'm not too sure what I'm looking for with regards to common faults.
Its ex-army, then private owner. 16 years old with 136k on the clock.

The price seems maybe a bit 'too good' if you see what I mean. There must be something wrong with it!
 
I wish we could get those basic, utility models of LR over here. I see that LR3 prices start from $50,000 and Range Rover prices start at $78,000.

The simple model like yours hasn't been imported for a generation, now. And there never were very many of them over here.

I hate to think what American LR and RR owners bear in annual depreciation. The sort of person who would buy one here wants it for a status symbol and probably buys a new one after a few years. I expect the trade-in value is dismal.

You have found the sort of bargain I would jump on, after researching every aspect I could think of. If yours comes anywhere near to living up to the LR reputation, it would be a keeper.
 
Cali, none of those on the site you linked to were what I would consider a 'true' Landrover. It doesnt look like they sell the Defender in the US then?
Its a similar story over here with regards to the fancier Landrovers, a status symbol for the rich. Though, I do know of some people who use LR3s on their farm and apart from a host of electrical problems they do seem to cope exceptionally well.
If you are truly interested in one I live a couple houses down from a Landrover dealer who exports regularly.
 
as with any used 4x4, check the transaxle & differential for excess wear/slippage, check fluids for signs of water, look for telltale grease stains around gaskets, etc... other than that, it may just be that the current owner doesn't know what it's worth, because "it's just a surplus truck"...

good luck!
 
Normal tractor sort of stuff then Erik?
I suppose the thing I am most concerned about is the dreaded rust. I stuck my head under and it looked good, but I'm guessing the worst offending places are going to be hard to see (mud traps).
I'm going back next weekend to take a closer look, the dealer owner should be around then
 
Mith said:
Cali, none of those on the site you linked to were what I would consider a 'true' Landrover. It doesn't look like they sell the Defender in the US then?
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My impression is that they are exceedingly rare here, and exceedingly expensive. In fact I thought the private importer had to bear the cost of modification to meet US safety and pollution standards. I've only seen maybe one on the street. The only Defender I'm absolutely certain I saw was on a farm in England when we were there.

Defender was sold in the U.S. only in 1993, 1994, 1995 and 1997 according to the US importer's website. (And I suspect those were sold outside California or the dozen or so states that adopted our air pollution standards.)

We drool over small diesels, but only now are they beginning to be imported in significant numbers. I think VW has been the only choice in recent years.

I thought one major feature of the Land Rover was mostly aluminum construction, so that they wouldn't rust like most vehicles. Is it economically rational to put a new frame under that LR? You might price that out as a worst case scenario.
 
The chassis is the achilles heel of the older lr's mith. bring a small pointy screw driver with you when you go back there and poke all around the chassis.
I toyed with buying myself an old 88 or 90 a few years back but of all of the lr's i went to see, the chassis was shot in just about all of them.
Pay particular attention to the raised area by the rear axle. Very prone to rust there. Have a look underneath for scrapes along the axles, diffs, beams, sump. You can tell a lot about the history of a 4x4 by looking at the undercarriage. A lot of folks use them for greenlaning or offroading (that 90 looks unmolested judging from the photo though)
Check the bulkhead, by the corners of the footwells and under the dash, another good spot to find rust.
You can buy a new galvanised chassis for the 90 but you can expect to pay £800-£1500 depending on the spec you choose. There is quite a bit of work involved in doing a chassis swop.
As for the mechanical, the 90 transmission does whine while you drive but this is a characteristic of the older LR's.
Suspension, steering, brakes etc.... you would look for the usual suspects here. Excessive play etc...
Make sure you give the engine and gearbox a good workout. Make sure the gears mesh smoothly going up and down through the range. Also Hi and lo range, 4 wheel drive and 2 wheel drive. Make sure everything is smooth. Parts are not expensive for the 90's so its a really good choice for a farm runabout or a beater. If you needed to swap out the gearbox, theres plenty about and not a big job to change out.
If you could convince the dealer/owner to let you take the 90 for a weekend just to give it a trial run, get a good look around it before you decide to buy?

I would recommend you go seek out a uk LR forum and ask the folks there what faults to look specifically. I'm sure they will be able to point you in the right direction.


Good luck.
 
Cali, I really struggle to understand the pollution standards. It seems to me that all the standards do is mean that you have to have a larger engine to produce the same HP as engines over here do, it seems somewhat counterproductive to me. It seems remarkable how little HP you guys are getting out of a V6 for example.

As you say, the bodywork is aluminium, you can get galvanised chassis' as Quincy said. Thats certainly a possibility.


Quincy, thanks for the pointers, very useful.
I have heard that the steering can be quite vague on these, is that the case, or should I be worried if it is?
The body looked good, I don't think its been offroad seriously.
I'm really hoping I dont find a big issue with it, its pretty much spot on what I was looking for.
Cheers
 
"Vague" is a very good description for the steering on the LR's mith!!

I've driven a few old landies and they all have the same steering characteristics.... Very slack, but good fun.

A neighbour of mine has an old 88" with canvas roof. In the summer he takes it out for runs to the beach with the top down. Kids love it. He can fold his windscreen down flat which proves for a very interesting sensation when driving it, watch out for the bumble bees!!

That 90 looks in good shape, if the price is right, why not buy it.

If there are any minor problems, I cant think of anyone better than you to fix them!!

What kind of engine Mith?

If you have sky tv, you should keep an eye out on the discovery channel. "A 4x4 is born". Mark Evans strips and rebuilds an old landie.

Or you could buy it here for twelve quid...
http://www.markevans.co.uk/acatalog/4x4_DVDs.html
 

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What are the H/L and 4WD gearboxes like on these Quincy?
On most the 4x4s I have driven it takes a combination of skill and brute force to get them to shift, same on LRs or should they be smooth?

I grew up with my parents having a succession of Suzuki SJs. They didnt have a roof from about May to August, the only way to travel in summer IMO!
Folks still have one up north, great little run about in the fields (and playing in the swampy bits over Christmas!)

All going well I might drop an offer on it, car sales are supposed to be poor at the moment, there has to be some bargaining possible.
Its a 2.5 N/A diesel. I'd rather it were smaller, but sadly they don't really come any smaller in a 90. I dont really know much about these engines, anything to watch for?
Do you have an idea of what its market value is (based on the assumption its good condition, little rust, GWO)? PM me if you want and I'll let you know asking.
 
Mith said:
Cali, I really struggle to understand the pollution standards. It seems to me that all the standards do is mean that you have to have a larger engine to produce the same HP as engines over here do ...
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Our California smog control regulations are, unfortunately, necessary. Los Angeles (where all our population lives) used to have many days per summer with air pollution above human tolerance standards. For example schoolchildren weren't allowed outside due to lung damage on the worst days, which were occuring more and more frequently. I recall stepping off the plane at Burbank (north LA) and immediately feeling burning, just like when you use too much bleach to scrub out your shower. I would feel painful irritation the whole week I worked down there. For them, there was no way to escape it. I think the asthma numbers were off the charts.

True the standards reduced horsepower in the early days, particularly on carburated engines. I think FI was adopted mostly to meet the standards while returning to reasonable efficiency. We have always used more cubic inches than the UK to get the same HP. I think UK vehicle tax was based on displacement, or even piston diameter (Taxable Horsepower) in the past, and also your fuel cost is higher, which led to more efficient engines. Our auto industry grew up with $0.25/gallon gasoline, and a love for the huge low end torque that large displacement provides. Different styles, from yours.

All summer in LA used to look like this. Some days you couldn't see where the sun was in the sky.
IMG_2578rDelhiSmog.jpg
Actually I took that photo in New Delhi, which several years ago banned diesels and also 2-cycles (in Vespa-type moto-rickshaws), requiring natural gas for anything registered in the principal cities. They say the pollution in this photo is a vast improvement from before.

Basically when you reach critical population density in regions with poor air circulation, you need to respond to the health problems brought on by urbanization.

That's the situation at the local level. I won't get into the global warming / ozone hole macro picture. :D
 
I'm not too sure about th 4x4's you've driven Mith but on the ones I've driven (even the old ones) the gears engaged positively and smoothly. If they dont slide into gear nicely then I'd be curious as to why... Finding the gear, you would expect it would take you a while to learn where they are, but fighting to get into gear, I'd be concerned.

Dont expect the 2.5 to set any lap speed records! But it will pull a heavy trailer for you. Geared to work not race!

The closest I came to buying a landie was about 3 years ago. I was seriously looking at a 1963 80" series II with canvas top, 2.25 petrol engine, pto winch and a bunch of spare parts. Needed a lot of work but was a worthy classic. I just couldnt pull the trigger and eventually it was sold to another. I really kicked myself for dragging my heals on the purchase. The asking price of that series II was £550 sterling.
Following that, I worked over in Cambridgeshire, UK for 8-9 months having changed jobs. I figured I'd easily pick up another landie while there, scanning every auto trader and local car mag trying to find one similar but had no luck and came home empty handed.
Moral of the story, if you want it, and it looks like a good deal, and you have the spare £££'s, then buy it!
Just make sure it is mechanically sound.

Heres a photo of a series II similar to the one I wanted, I have this photo as a screen saver on my laptop to serve as a permanent reminder of how stoopid I am. A polished aluminium landie (this is NOT the one I was looking at! :pat:)
 

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Cali, it just seemed odd the way it was measured. How people get away with 7 litre engines, but 2 litre engines dont meet the requirements.
I only own 1 engine that is rated to meet the pollution requirements for California and it is one of the most thirsty engines I own (and it isnt the biggest!)
Vehicle tax is now based on carbon emissions.


Quincy, SJs and Toyota Hilux. They have always been 'difficult' to get in and out of 4WD and low/high.

I had heard that the 2.5 N/A was a bit weak. But I'm not towing with it, so apart from the odd steep hill it wont exactly be too taxed :D

Sorry to make you feel worse, but 550 for a series is pretty amazing. From what I have read, unless you want to throw money about then you wont get a series.
Initially I wanted a pre-'72 seriesII (free tax and cheap insurance), but prices were pretty astronomical.
There is a Series on the lot at the dealer, but he wouldnt say the price which probably means I cant afford it. Actually he was keen on some 'cancelled order' new 90s, admitadly a great deal, but I dont have that kind of money available.
 
Mith said:
Sorry to make you feel worse, but 550 for a series is pretty amazing. From what I have read, unless you want to throw money about then you wont get a series.
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I know. It was going to cost me more to drive over to the uk and trailer it back to ireland. I should have bitten the hand off the guy when we settled on his rock bottom price. He just wanted his shed cleared out. He didnt know what he had.

We are all allowed to have one stupid decision in life i guess....:rolleyes:

Have not found a bargain even near to that one since..... (grown man weaps)

But hey, enough about me, this thread is about your 90... (apologies for hijack)

Did you do any research on landrover owner forums? Those would be the guys I'd go to and ask the questions. I hope it works out for you Mith.


q
 
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Mith said:
Vehicle tax is now based on carbon emissions.
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That makes too much sense to get past the lobbyists here. (Who did all they could to make present regulations favor US-built cars.)

Hopefully there is a slight chance the new administration will apply such a rational criterion, but I'm not sure there is much incentive to make such a radical change. It would require a whole new point of view.
 
Q, we can't buy all the good deals I suppose. I'm trying my best, but there isn't enough money in the world! :D
Feel free to hi-jack away (I think California started it anyway :D)
I looked on some owner forums, pretty much what you had said as far as looking at one goes. They were a little discouraging actually, they weren't telling me what I wanted to hear with regards to practicality. By most accounts its going to be a love/hate relationship. Love having it, hate driving it. I suppose a Landie will give me an excuse to go my preferred speed though (slow), and I can spend a little time off the road.
On the up side though, went to see a friend of mine who is an ex-Landrover mechanic at the dealership I have been looking at. He was very encouraging both about the 90 and the dealer.
He did point out something I had overlooked though. Apparently not all of the early 90s have a heater, something which is essential (de-mist the windows!).
I know I am going to be fighting with myself over this all week.
 
My friend went and looked at it earlier in the week and gave it 2 thumbs up. I trust his opinion completely, so I went today for a closer look and to find faults to knock the price down.
I found one spot of rust about the size of a finger nail that they are repairing.
It started right up despite the fact that its only a little above freezing here, a bit of white smoke for a bit, but not overly concerning. My tractor is worse when its this cold.
So its done, deposit down. They are changing all fluids and filters (inc trans and diffs) and getting it tested for me as part of the price, should get it in a week.

Thanks for the help guys
 
Q, come Monday it should be here. I worked a service and MOT into the deal so they have to do that before delivering it.
 
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