zionview
Member
I paid nearly $70/ft. installed for my flue. That was the most expensive item I purchased by far.
Interested in an outdoor (or indoor) woodburner
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
Sounds like you need an "all of the above" solution.
When the gas runs out, you're going to need a commercial solution. You can either switch to LP or replace the furnace with electric. Dropping in a LP tank and plumbing it in has a cost that may be similar to putting in a new electric unit. Be advised, if you switch to electric then use those electric coils in the furnace as opposed to heat pump or another source, it can get pricey. I think mine has 4 coils that some on in stages. Each is 5KW. If it kicks on all 4, that's 20KW or about $2 per hour. Another disadvantage of electric heat is your generator needs to be a lot larger. You could probably run your whole house on a 7KW genset when using gas. I'm all electric and my 15KW isn't big enough to run any heating (other than the fans on the wood stoves). I'd have to go to 20KW to run the heat pump and 30KW if I want to even think about turning on the electric furnace. Because I heat with wood, my electric furnace is only used a couple hours each winter.
On the heat pump, I don't know what you have but if it's somewhat new it probably isn't costing much to run. Mine is about 12 years old and is a 5-ton unit. Whether running for heat or A/C in the summer, I've found it to be about $1 per day avg, even on extreme hot days where it runs 12-16 hours straight. Some new heat pumps have a cold weather something but they're good down to something like 0°.
If I were in your shoes and anticipating the gas going out.
First, I'd go with LP over electric.
I'd look into buying (not renting) something like a 500 gallon propane tank. Get it in place and plumbed into the house but capped and not yet connected to anything. Buy whatever parts are needed to plumb in your furnace, water tank, oven, dryer... Watch the prices for propane then get it filled when the price is low. That propane can sit for years. It doesn't go bad.
Remember, you're only going to know your current gas is gone when you're using some heating appliance it it doesn't work. If it's the dead of winter and your furnace doesn't have gas, you're now in trouble. If you have all the LP components on-site and plumbed to the house, you (or a HVAC tech) can relatively quickly switch your appliances to LP. If you don't have the LP ready, it may be days to get it all in and then you're at their mercy for pricing. Also hope your house/pipes don't freeze.
Now that you know you can keep your house functioning, look at a wood burning solution. With even 5-10 acres of woods, you have an endless supply for a house. You already have the big tools needed for harvesting (tractor, RTV...). A decent saw and a couple small tools and you're up and running. As you consider a wood solution, start getting firewood to the house area (out of the woods). To let the wood season properly, you'll want to be at least 2 years ahead. You can always sell it if you get too far ahead or decide against a wood burner. Until you pick a stove, I'd cut your chunks to 15-17". Most any wood burner can take that size. If you cut at 20" and the one you want only handles up to 18", you're screwed.
Now that I've spent all your time and money for the next year or 2, you now have plenty of time (1-2 years) to think about what you really want for a wood burning solution.
Good info Brian. Thanks. I had not considered buying the propane tank but that does sound like an excellent idea, so I can buy propane from any supplier. Wonder if service would suffer if you own your tank rather than renting from them. No matter, I like not being unter their thumb. Thanks.
And propane is my preference of the options. Most like the gas I already have. I'm thinking I'd unhook my incoming gas line and hook up the propane, change orifices and should be good to go.Hi zionview. Thanks for chiming in.
Good to hear from someone with an outdoor stove. Good thoughts. Is your shop apart from your house? Do you heat it all winter or just when in use? Do you go through a lot more wood to achieve the same heat as an indoor stove? Would you mind giving ball park figures on how much more the insurance was ..and was that impacted by this not being a lived in residence?
zionview
Member
Hey Zionview - where you been? This is the first time you've posted in years. Are you lurking? Come on out and talk with us more.
I couldn't think of anything to say.
zionview
Member
Doc, I built a 12X14 shed over what was a thermal collector, which is about 10 feet from the shop. I retained the 2' deep rock bed for residual heat. I'm still working the kinks out of it, but I use it only when I'm working in the shop, usually weekends. I believe I'll burn more wood since the stove is in another building, but not a whole lot. I just use a box fan at the inside end of the heat run to bring the heat into the shop. I have an old cast iron register that I want to mount over the stove and supply hot water to a real good suspended heater I bartered for some welding. I insulated the heck out of the stove building, hopefully not enough to affect air to burn. At the moment, the heat run has some mud in it from construction that I'm trying to work out 'cause it's restricting air flow. As far as insurance goes, I drew up a set of plans for my agent and took them to his office. There was no increase in premiums for having the stove in a building other than the shop. If you're curious, the thermal collector worked for two winters. After that, we never had enough sunny days to get it warm, plus keeping it sealed was a headache. It didn't provide a lot of heat, but it was better than the wrenches stick-freezing to my hands. I tried to attach a few pictures of my set-up, but they won't load.
zionview
Member
My MAC's being a bear, so hopefully some pics got uploaded. I cantilevered the trusses for some weather protection so I can stage wood outside the building, between it and the shop. One pic is from back when I built the thermal collector. Those are the runs I'm still using for heat and return. You can sorta see the rock bed behind the concrete pad the stove is sitting on.
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I now see what Zionview was talking about related to insurance. I thought his wood burner was heating the house.
A wood stove in a house doesn't raise your rates much. A wood stove in a shop is darn near taboo in an insurance companies eyes. They will hit you hard or not insure you at all. They don't like open-flame heating in shops as shops are traditionally loaded with fuels and combustible materials. I do find it a bid odd that they consider wood stoves open flame heating but if you hang a gas heater from your ceiling, that's fine. Maybe it has to do with degrees of open flame or whether it's on the floor vs ceiling.
A wood stove in a house doesn't raise your rates much. A wood stove in a shop is darn near taboo in an insurance companies eyes. They will hit you hard or not insure you at all. They don't like open-flame heating in shops as shops are traditionally loaded with fuels and combustible materials. I do find it a bid odd that they consider wood stoves open flame heating but if you hang a gas heater from your ceiling, that's fine. Maybe it has to do with degrees of open flame or whether it's on the floor vs ceiling.
Don't combustible vapors settle down to the lowest point? Code here requires a gas water heater in the garage to be on a pedestal, 30 inches or so. I was told this was to get the flame above any potential concentration of vapors.
So a ceiling gas heater - Reznor or something - sounds safer than a wood stove on the floor.
Yes they do settle. I was told I couldn't use a drum (wood) heater, even if I raised it.
My main building is split into 3 areas. The front 2 are oversized car bays that are approx. 16x28. In each of those, I use a Reznor 70,000 BTU LP heater. They work awesome.
My main building is split into 3 areas. The front 2 are oversized car bays that are approx. 16x28. In each of those, I use a Reznor 70,000 BTU LP heater. They work awesome.
zionview
Member
To tell the truth, I haven't tried to get it that warm. 45 or 50 is good for me. Right now I'm trying to get that heat run cleared so I can give it a good try out. I think adding the hot water heater will make it a lot more efficient, but the way I'm going, that will be next fall's project.
zionview
Member
In my previous house, I used a wall vent propane heater to heat the attached 32'X36' garage. Insurance? No problem. When I approached my agent about heating my present shop(before he saw my drawings), he said "you're not putting a stove inside the shop, are you?" Apparently, it's a touchy subject with my insurer, too. He also told me he couldn't carry me if I built my own stove, no matter how much confidence he had in me personally. Not even with it in another building next to the shop.