Ferguson TEA-20 wont start

[joki_tundra]

So I've recently bought a Ferguson TEA-20 that seemed to be in allright order. However, the seller never showed it actually starting because it didn't have a starter motor on it when I was there looking at it. They also said that it'd need a new battery to start, and that they'd put a new starter on it. I picked it up on a trailer. I've how had it at home for almost a month, an it has yet to start and properly run. Attached is a couple of photos of my tractor.

First thing I did when I got it was fixing most of the main wires, especially to the starter. Then I bought a new 64AmpH (640 ECC) battery. The tractor still didn't start, so I made a new wire from the battery switch to a spot on the gearbox as I had read that it the attachment on the dashboard wasn't the best grounding point. Nothing up til now had worked. I then put both batteries (old and new), after charging them, in parallell, an then shorted between the contact-points on the starter solenoid with a screwdriver. There seemed to be more action going on when I did that, so after a couple of attempts it finally started. I then killed it to see if it would start again, and it did not. So I replaced the starter solenoid, and bought a big optima battery with 50AmpH and 815 ECC. It seemed to somewhat work, as the starter did spin the engine. But the engine did not fire. I knew the carburetor had been wet, so I took it off, cleaned it, and put new gaskets on (nothing inside was blocked or clogged). I also changed fanbelt and sparkplugs in hopes that it would help and I'd not have to fix it later. Today, after charging the battery and filling it with gas, nothing happened. Just like it was with the first battery that came with the Fergie, nothing but a slight sound of the starter trying but not properly managing to engage.

This is of course a short version of the long month I've had trying to get this thing to start.
But basically:
- New starter
- New wires to starter
- New battery (64AmpH, 640 ECC)
- New starter switch solenoid
- New Optima battery (50AmpH, 815 ECC)
- Cleaned out carburetor and replaced gaskets
- New fanbelt
- New spark plugs

I do not understand why my Fergie does not start properly, why my batteries has to be charged every time it fails to start, and why non of the things I've done has really changed anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Optima battery
New starter from those I bought it off
Carburetor
Fuel switch
Starter switch solenoid
Tractor before I bought it

 

[bczoom]

Did you replace the battery cables?
My tractor has failed me a couple times. In both instances, it was corrosion on the inside of the battery cables (not visible). You'll get good voltage readings but due to corrosion, it can't supply amps to the starter.
Run jumper cables in parallel to the battery cables and see what happens.

 

[joki_tundra]

Did you replace the battery cables?
My tractor has failed me a couple times. In both instances, it was corrosion on the inside of the battery cables (not visible). You'll get good voltage readings but due to corrosion, it can't supply amps to the starter.
Run jumper cables in parallel to the battery cables and see what happens.

See, the cables/wires from the battery to the starter and solenoid switch has been replaced, and was something I did almost immediately when I got it. I've also tried to run jumper-cables directly onto the starter with no luck.

According to my father he says it feels very heavy to turn by hand, so maybe the issue is mechanical?

 

[bczoom]

According to my father he says it feels very heavy to turn by hand, so maybe the issue is mechanical?

For that, the first thing I'd suggest is to pull the spark plugs out and try turning it over with the plugs out to see if the engine cranks easily.
BTW, if you have a fuel shut-off valve, go ahead and close the fuel line for this test.

 

[Fedup]

Engine "feels heavy". That engine is not that big. Without pulling the spark plugs, you should be able to turn it over by hand. Transmission in neutral, stand on one side, push in on the fan belt with one hand and pull on the fan blade with the other. If you can't make it turn that way, you could have a problem. Has it been sitting not running for some time? (provided the seller was honest enough to say so) Since you never actually heard it run, you have all sorts of possibles on the table.

 

[joki_tundra]

For that, the first thing I'd suggest is to pull the spark plugs out and try turning it over with the plugs out to see if the engine cranks easily.
BTW, if you have a fuel shut-off valve, go ahead and close the fuel line for this test.

Engine "feels heavy". That engine is not that big. Without pulling the spark plugs, you should be able to turn it over by hand. Transmission in neutral, stand on one side, push in on the fan belt with one hand and pull on the fan blade with the other. If you can't make it turn that way, you could have a problem. Has it been sitting not running for some time? (provided the seller was honest enough to say so) Since you never actually heard it run, you have all sorts of possibles on the table.

Thanks for the replies!
Today I took out the spark plugs and tried turning it with the starter motor. It turn over like it was nothing. When I took the plugs in again and tried, it was completely stuck.
As for how long it has been sitting, the seller told me they bought it back around 2018, and had it as an exhibit since then. So it hasn't really moved a lot as much as I know. But according to them, it did startup after they had replaced the starter motor.

But yea, without sparkplugs it turns around easily, but with them in it becomes very heavy. Any idea as of why this is?

 

[Fedup]

That says the engine is NOT tight, the weak link has to be battery, cables (and/or connections) or starter. Yes, the starter is new, but that "don't make it good". It all looks good in the photos, but something here is not carrying the load. If it were me I would suspect the solenoid again. Try the "shorting between the posts" trick again and see what happens.

 

[joki_tundra]

That says the engine is NOT tight, the weak link has to be battery, cables (and/or connections) or starter. Yes, the starter is new, but that "don't make it good". It all looks good in the photos, but something here is not carrying the load. If it were me I would suspect the solenoid again. Try the "shorting between the posts" trick again and see what happens.

Ok, so I've tried shorting it, and not much happened. There was lots of sparks (more than there was before I switched it out with the current, new, one). As far as I saw and heard, the starter didn't turn. I hoped the starter wouldn't be the problem as it is very expensive, but maybe it is?

 

[bczoom]

Do an internet search for "car starter testing near me".

I've never had to do it myself but auto parts stores (e.g. O'Reilly's, Autozone...) all advertise they do free starter testing. I don't know of their procedure but would assume you just bring the starter in (not attached to vehicle).

Other companies are around that specialize in starter rebuilds and testing.

 

[bczoom]

Hmmm. I had a Ferguson TO-20 about 40 years ago and don't recall everything but wondering if this is an option.
Does yours have a key ignition or just a push button to start it or maybe it doesn't matter?

Wondering if you could do the old routine of "push starting". Basically put it in low gear, clutch depressed then have a vehicle tow you at low speed then you pop the clutch to start it. Do internet search for "push starting a car" to get the concept.
Just don't know about what electrically (if anything) needs to be ON to try this on your tractor.

 

[joki_tundra]

Do an internet search for "car starter testing near me".

I've never had to do it myself but auto parts stores (e.g. O'Reilly's, Autozone...) all advertise they do free starter testing. I don't know of their procedure but would assume you just bring the starter in (not attached to vehicle).

Other companies are around that specialize in starter rebuilds and testing.

Hmmm. I had a Ferguson TO-20 about 40 years ago and don't recall everything but wondering if this is an option.
Does yours have a key ignition or just a push button to start it or maybe it doesn't matter?

Wondering if you could do the old routine of "push starting". Basically put it in low gear, clutch depressed then have a vehicle tow you at low speed then you pop the clutch to start it. Do internet search for "push starting a car" to get the concept.
Just don't know about what electrically (if anything) needs to be ON to try this on your tractor.

I'll have a look online if any shops near me have a "starter tester".

As for the fergies eletrics, as far as I understand it it has a key for the ignition and on mine specifically also a battery cutoff connected to the battery's positive and the tractor body. Both have to be in "on" position for the tractor to work, but only the cutoff has to be on for the starter to engage (though it wont fire up this way).

I could try push-starting it, though I dont have too much room for it where I live. But shouldnt it be possible to hand-crank it? Up till now I havent been able to start it by cranking?

 

[joki_tundra]

If anyone has any other ideas, please reply. I have been stuck with this problem for months now.

I received a new starter motor yesterday and will mount it today to see if it was the problem. If it isn't, then I have no idea. Like I've said earlier, it turns smoothly around when sparkplugs are out, but stays still when they're in. The battery has an ECC of over 800amps, and battery wires have all been replaced with new ones, as well as the solenoid that makes the circuit.

I do not understand why it does not start.

 

[bczoom]

I received a new starter motor yesterday and will mount it today to see if it was the problem.

Let us know.

 

[Fedup]

The battery cutoff? Have you tried taking that out of the circuit and just using a ground cable? It sure sounds like something in this system isn't "carrying the load." Removing that will eliminate one more possibility.

 

[bczoom]

If the new starter doesn't fix the issue, I'd like you to consider re-evaluating the solenoid situation.
I don't recall if your tractor would have one but I had a failure on my ZTR last year. I did pretty much everything you're doing then on working my way from the starter solenoid back to the ignition, I found a solenoid relay. It'll look something like what's pictured below. Might have 2, 3 or 4 terminals.
Once I replaced that, all was well.

 

[joki_tundra]

If the new starter doesn't fix the issue, I'd like you to consider re-evaluating the solenoid situation.
I don't recall if your tractor would have one but I had a failure on my ZTR last year. I did pretty much everything you're doing then on working my way from the starter solenoid back to the ignition, I found a solenoid relay. It'll look something like what's pictured below. Might have 2, 3 or 4 terminals.
Once I replaced that, all was well.



View attachment 15652

I have already replaced the solenoid with a brand new one. But when I took the starter out yesterday I saw the bolts were metric, so when i tried mounting it again the bolts didnt fasten properly. I believe the ones I bought the tractor from used the wrong bolts as its probably the old british standard and not metric. So now I have to fix the holes with helicoils first before i can actually mount the starter properly. It may have been that the bad connection by the bolts and paint where the starter is mounted has made bad enough contact that it drew too much power.

I'll get back when I've fixed the holes and mounted the starter with proper contact.