Backblading a bad idea?
- Thread starter Rico
- Start date
I don't ever recall anyone suggesting that it's bad for the loader or related hydraulics. Both gentle and aggressive loader bucket angles help me considerably when working a wet pile of fill, smoothing (backwards) freshly box bladed areas of gravel, crushed concrete etc. After acquiring a certain knack of just barely lifting the front wheels of the ground...it fills low spots and holes faster (IMHO).
I have noticed that nuts and bolts tend to loosen and need better attention than normally scheduled maintenance. On mine anyway...
I have noticed that nuts and bolts tend to loosen and need better attention than normally scheduled maintenance. On mine anyway...
I had some problems back-dragging that were eventually traced to poor bucket fit tolerances and faulty tool carrier latching parts. In fact, I was dropping buckets fairly regularly at one point due to those same faulty tool carrier latching parts... back-dragging or not! I believe the problem is pretty much resolved at this point with all new parts (including a new tool carrier frame), but I really won't know for 100% certain until I put some serious hours on the FEL next spring. Note that my particular fit & latch mechanism problem related only to skid steer quick attach tool carriers and buckets.
Dougster
MtnViewRanch
Member
I believe that on our compact and utility tractors that it is best to have the bottom of the bucket 15 degrees or less to the ground. Industrial loaders are constructed differently and can take the abuse.
Myself, I have found that I get great results with the bucket flat with the ground or even have the back of the bucket lower than the cutting edge. Of course the bucket will wear out faster the way that I back drag.
Myself, I have found that I get great results with the bucket flat with the ground or even have the back of the bucket lower than the cutting edge. Of course the bucket will wear out faster the way that I back drag.
shinnlinger
Member
Dougster,
I was watching a guy back drag boulders with his spotless new Massey this summer and he kept knocking the bucket off like you describe. I was getting ice cream with my daughters (3+4) who were really into the show, but the dude was NOT as thrilled with jumping on and off the rig every other boulder and wrestling with his bucket as they were and the glare he shot me chilled me more than the ice cream when my oldest informed him "Papa's orange tractor doesn't do that"
I swear I didn't put her up to it, but I was thinking the same thing.
As far as back dragging, I have done my share with no ill effects of note, but I usually find my back blade which I welded wheels on gives me alot more control and these blades are pretty cheap to come by if you had any concerns.
I was watching a guy back drag boulders with his spotless new Massey this summer and he kept knocking the bucket off like you describe. I was getting ice cream with my daughters (3+4) who were really into the show, but the dude was NOT as thrilled with jumping on and off the rig every other boulder and wrestling with his bucket as they were and the glare he shot me chilled me more than the ice cream when my oldest informed him "Papa's orange tractor doesn't do that"
I swear I didn't put her up to it, but I was thinking the same thing.
As far as back dragging, I have done my share with no ill effects of note, but I usually find my back blade which I welded wheels on gives me alot more control and these blades are pretty cheap to come by if you had any concerns.
Oh, I assure you that buckets constantly falling off in front of a client are not only embarrassing... it is a downright dangerous situation. But this was a case of numerous faulty parts and not operator error (not that the distinction mattered much to my astonished clients).
How I came to identify and replace all of the faulty parts, find salvation and achieve back-dragging nirvana is a long story. At this point I am about 95% sure that the various tool carrier problems are fully resolved, but like I said: I really won't know for 100% certain until next spring.
Working mobile and for profit almost always means some compromise in regard to attachments and implements. You rarely have the time and luxury of changing to and using the ideal implement for every possible aspect of a job. The ability to "backdrag" (for lack of a broader, more universal term) with your FEL bucket or grapple is a critical function on almost every paying job.
Dougster
I can certainly agree with you that heavy skidsteer loaders have a marked advantage over our tractor FELs when it comes to back-dragging. It is, after all, one of their key functions. I also agree that the smaller the angle you can use, generally the better off you are. But this concept falls apart when it comes to back-dragging large rocks and similar construction debris... with a bucket or a grapple.I believe that on our compact and utility tractors that it is best to have the bottom of the bucket 15 degrees or less to the ground. Industrial loaders are constructed differently and can take the abuse. Myself, I have found that I get great results with the bucket flat with the ground or even have the back of the bucket lower than the cutting edge. Of course the bucket will wear out faster the way that I back drag.
But I doubt your 7520's bucket is going to wear out anytime soon.
And if it does, I'm absolutely certain that you can afford a brand new one! Fortunately for me, that new CAT monster bucket I now use will likely never wear out.
Dougster
I did some back blading today in the area where I got stuck last week. I would be lost without being able to do that for finishing an area before seeding. My light weight rear blade is so so, as it does not have the down pressure to move the dirt like I want.
Yep, got some seat time and didn't get stuck. Life is good. And I got the area seeded and to top it off rain is in the forecast. 
Yep, got some seat time and didn't get stuck. Life is good.
And I got the area seeded and to top it off rain is in the forecast. 
I did some back blading today in the area where I got stuck last week. I would be lost without being able to do that for finishing an area before seeding. My light weight rear blade is so so, as it does not have the down pressure to move the dirt like I want.
Yep, got some seat time and didn't get stuck. Life is good.
I've never had problems but I've only used the fel for a back blade in light duty applications.
The BEST way to use the fel for a back blade is to have your wife do it!
She is using the new BX to clean out the turnouts beside the barn.
Attachments
Rico
New member
Well thanks guys
I am a beginner and have only logged 90hrs on my old NH TC-30 and now 40 hrs on the new love of my life the L39 so I am somewhat green to all of this. I have also read that backblading is is a bit tuff on the tractor but I do not remember where, maybe that other tractor site. Also I was thinking I may have tweaked my FEL please see this post
http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172 and let me know your thoughts on that.
Cheers!
I am a beginner and have only logged 90hrs on my old NH TC-30 and now 40 hrs on the new love of my life the L39 so I am somewhat green to all of this. I have also read that backblading is is a bit tuff on the tractor but I do not remember where, maybe that other tractor site. Also I was thinking I may have tweaked my FEL please see this post
http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172 and let me know your thoughts on that.
Cheers!
Funny, but it would seem to me that your nicely slanted FEL boom would make for much easier and safer back-dragging... putting far less strain on the front portion of the boom and the curl cylinders than my traditional, more square style FEL.
Dougster
From my lil FEL on my Massey to our Cat payloader...I use backdragging all the time at all angles with soem serious loading. Works fine and is best for leveling smoothly. As to the FEL on Massey, the loads are proportional to the weight of the tractor unit, so likely I'm putting no more strain on the FEL as I am on the payloader no matter the angle.
MtnViewRanch
Member
I am not familiar with your tractors, so I may be wrong about your conditions. But the hydraulic rams are extended on my Mahindra and collapsed on my 580 Case. So when back blading the Case is a lot stronger simply because the hydraulics are retracted. I think that most compact and ag type tractors have the hydraulics extended when the bucket is dumped, so if when back blading with one of these tractors it would be considered safer (stronger) to have the blade at 15 degrees or less.
Just relating my experience with my tractors and operators manual, your experiences may vary.
Bindian
Member
I am a firm believer that bigger is better when backblading. I think the damage really happens when backblading at a high angle and the operator forgets he has the bucket cutting (leading) edge pointing down at the ground and drives forward and hits a dip in the ground. Which can cause parts to snap during the sudden stop. I have done it on my Mahindra, but it just digs a dip out I have to fill in.
hugs, Brandi
hugs, Brandi
N
Nicahawk
Guest
I just finished replacing 3 yard hydrants and after back filling the holes I "backbladed" to finish smoothing. The trick is a slight angle on the bucket and a little downward force. I've used the FEL several times to get unstuck and out of tight spots. I'm always careful not to abuse the loader.
Nic
Nic
urednecku
Member
My Kubota papers says to use the 'heel' of the bucket. I think they would have said not to do it if it would have hurt something. Of course any time you 'rub' something on the ground there is a certain amount of wear. (Mabe they want to sell me a new one if this one wears out?)
I am aware of the cautions and of the high ram forces involved in high dump angle back blading. My experience of 340hrs with the ML275 on the 7520 is that it can take it. This doesnt mean you cant hurt it by being careless - only that youre not likely to break it at any angle using steadily applied force as opposed to hitting something at speed. I have BDed at 90 with loaded AG rears scratching and the loaded fronts in the air. Ive done this so many times to start penetration that Im thru worrying about it - just go slow and back the angle down when you dont need it. I also back drag logs at more than 90 since this tends to lift the log and prevent rolling it and skating over. It also brings the point of force application upward on the bucket which moderates the force on the rams. Altho I know these are extreme cases I do these when I need the full capability offered by the machine. Based on many experiences at the limit, I wouldnt think twice aboutgoing to high angles of 80 or less when BDing with this TL combination.I believe that on our compact and utility tractors that it is best to have the bottom of the bucket 15 degrees or less to the ground. Industrial loaders are constructed differently and can take the abuse.
Myself, I have found that I get great results with the bucket flat with the ground or even have the back of the bucket lower than the cutting edge. Of course the bucket will wear out faster the way that I back drag.
larry