RTV 900 - lost steering

[Cassey]

Hi all -

I have an approx. 6 year old RTV 900 with 420 hours on it. All was fine when I pulled it into its storage shed 2 weeks ago.

Temp has dropped a lot since then, with a few nights around 0F. About 20F right now. Went to back the RTV out of the shed and noticed the steering was really hard - figured the hydraulic fluid was just cold, so ignored it. Made about a 1/4 turn and lost the steering, first with a few bumps when I turned the wheel, but now nothing. If it was rack and pinion, I'd say I stripped the gears, but its not...

Jacked the front of the vehicle up (ok, used the hay fork on my tractor, but the wheels were clear) and I can't manually turn the wheels. Turning the steering wheel, even with the tires hanging, does nothing.

I'm presuming it has something to do with the current temps, but of course don't know that for sure. Is it possible water got into the system and froze something up? Guessing if it starts working in above 32F temps I should replace all the power steering fluid (its just Super UDT, so no big deal).

Oh, yes, I did check the reservoir, its full.

Suggestions?

 

[SpudHauler]

Changing the power steering fluid to SUDT will probably solve the issue.

Don't have a 900 manual, gave it away with the new owner, and my 1100 manual is different, so can't describe what needs to be changed.

Oil tank under the seat.

Good Luck.

 

[Cassey]

I looked up the process before posting, it seemed simple enough. The only question is what happened? Is it cold related? And what should I do with the old fluid? Burn it? (This is a farm, got to use it for something!)

Suspect I should wait until its over 32F.

Cheers.

 

[bordercollie]

Hi Cassey. Years and years ago, there was a post by hammerhead... I think it was before we became net tractor talk, and he had a Toro brand vehicle . It had a similar problem because of frozen water in the belt drive transmission or somewhere there abouts. He put a heat lamp on the problem area and found his problem. I know it is terrible, terrible to say, but I changed my power steering fluid one time in the '05 RTV 900 I had. I sold it with over 4200 hrs on it and never had problems with it and it was not dark colored at all even then but it was also moisture free.. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to do like I did... Changing it is a wise thing..
Now, the transmission and motor oil was a different story, I changed it very often at 400 hrs for the trans and 150 or so on the oil.
Does the steering wheel just spin or meet resistance? You are saying you can't move the wheels manually left or right with it jacked up? I was wondering if a chunk of ice or maybe some other object was wedged in the place between the boot protectors or maybe frozen there where the wheels meet the frame? It got so cold here one time, I had that happen.. I would jack it up and give it a good looking and also look at the power steering hoses for problems and the power steering "cylinder" under there and make sure it isn't jammed somehow. I am just using the process of elimination.
On the used oil, The place where you buy the new stuff should have a place to take it. Some tractor places don't advertise that they have a "recycle" place but they all have a place.. even Walmart takes old oil but ya have to ask 'em and get a person that is in a good mood. I use my clean and clear but used transmission oil on the cattle back rubbers with an insecticide . Let us know what the problem is when you have a chance. bordercollie

 

[TWO GUNS]

And what should I do with the old fluid? Burn it? (This is a farm, got to use it for something!)

Welcome Here !!!
Keep us up to date with this. I am guessing it is the cold .....
And Oh yes, it's always a use for oil like that.... When you catch it and put it in a container. PLEASE mark it showing it's old fluid.

............ two guns

 

[Cassey]

Thanks all.

BoarderCollie: When either up in the air or on the ground, the front tires are immovable (at least by me and without the aid of anything like a sludge hammer). Once in a while, when turning the wheel, I'll feel a little bump - like a broken gear trying to engage, but that is it. The steering wheel otherwise spins freely, I've spun in several times in both directions with no avail.

Ice jamming something externally is unlikely. The unit was stored in a steel shed (old international shipping container that is no longer sea worthy) and we had plenty of days in the 40-50s since it was stored. It was also around that temp when it was put away. Now... internal water, yeah, that be a problem. I have a suspicion, but for marital bliss purposes won't say it.

The unit has 420 hours on it. I believe I had it last serviced a bit over 200 hours, so its due. Time to go buy 5 gallons of Super UDT and replace everything.

At the risk of switching subjects: Locally I can find Champion 4000, which claims to be Super UDT rated. Am I OK using that? Real Kubota SUDT is 90+ miles away. I have enough Kubota brand to do the power steering, but not the transmission while I'm at it.

In the past I had better employment and had the dealer do everything, but need to start doing this stuff myself... Yeah, I'm one of those 17% of Americans that are now underemployed after a 25 year Corporate America career. $220 pickup and delivery charges from the dealer 90 miles away is no longer an option.

Cassey

ps. I like the idea of using the used stuff for a cattle rub. My Highlands would appreciate having one of those.

 

[TWO GUNS]

Thanks all.

The steering wheel otherwise spins freely, I've spun in several times in both directions with no avail.

This is got me baffled ....

Could it be in the steering controller (2) , or air in the lines (3) ?


......... two guns

 

[TWO GUNS]

BoaI'll feel a little bump - like a broken gear trying to engage, but that is it. .

First, I know really nothing about this. I'm shooting in the dark also.
But where would a "Gear" be in this, being hydraulic driven ?

....... two guns

 

[Cassey]

No gear that I know of, which has me baffled as well.

My running guess is ICE in the line, preventing any hydraulic fluid motion. Won't know until it warms up over freezing out here.

Oh, this is based on the classic "oil and water don't mix" theory, which would allow the water, in this theory, to accumulate enough to form ice. Wouldn't need but a teaspoon or so.

Current plan is to replace all the fluid on some day when its over 40F.

 

[TWO GUNS]

Something else that was puzzling me. When the machine in NOT running, you cannot turn for there is no pressure or fluid flow.
What would make it "free-spin" like you stated ?
If there was ice or something keeping the pressure from being there, why would it spin ?

 

[pepr]

I'm with TwoGuns and the shop manual. Its sounds like there's a problem with the steering controller or metering device which is in the steering controller. Also could be air in the system; however, the reservoir was full. Possibly there is a leak at the steering controller allowing air to be sucked in.

Per the shop manual, replacing the controller requires pulling the ROPS, steering wheel and the dash cover. Sounds like a big project.

Best wishes and please keep us informed.

 

[muleman RIP]

Sounds like it stripped the steering wheel where it attaches. May just be a key sheared on the shaft.

 

[D&D Farm]

I am really LOST on this one........I have not taken a look; but are you guys saying that there is NOT a rod or something going down to a "steering gear box" and then over to the tie rods??????? It is all hydraulic driven by the action of how much the steering wheel is turned???????

How come I am able to steer when going down hill with the engine dead????? Doesn't some pump have to build hydraulic pressure so that one can steer if it is dependent upon hydraulic pressure????????................NOT just asking dumb questions but this is kinda like "fly by wire" in the NEW cars or the F16........God bless.......Dennis

 

[TWO GUNS]

How come I am able to steer when going down hill with the engine dead?????

Dennis,
Kubota, and many other companies has it this way. For it is unlawful to put a
fully hydraulic steering system on a steering axle just for the reason for " IF " a engine
goes dead, pressure goes dead, one could not steer.
So they have these type of systems where they are " Power Steering ", but still have control over loss of pressure .

No steering shafts going to steering boxes on these machines ......

Sure hoped I explained this correct ......

P.S.
Most Swamp machines, Moster Trucks, Earth moving machines, most with
Big Wheel and Oversized steering has fully hydraulic steering, that is why they
are not allowed on public roads...... and let me add, ( that is not the ONLY reason, but one of them ..... ) <>>>>>

........... two guns

 

[pepr]

Dennis, below is text from the service manual that may help to answer your question.

An oil, sent from the hydraulic pump to the steering​

cylinder, passes through the metering device (2).​

Namely, when the rotor is driven, two chambers suck​

in oil due to volumetric change in the pup chambers​

formed between the rotor (11) and the stator (12), while​

oil is discharged from other two chambers. On the other​

hand, rotation of the steering wheel is directly transmitted​

to the rotor through the spool (6), drive shaft (9), etc.​

Accordingly, the metering device serves to supply the​

steering cylinder with oil, amount of which corresponds to​

the rotation of the steering wheel. The wheels are thus​

turned by the angle corresponding to the rotation of the​

steering wheel.​

When the engine stops or the hydraulic pump​

malfunctions, the metering device functions as a manual​

trochoid pump, which makes manual steering possible.

 

[Cassey]

Sounds like it stripped the steering wheel where it attaches. May just be a key sheared on the shaft.

Yeah... it does now that you mention it. I'm still due, per the owners manual, for a fluid change, so will do that anyhow.

Alas, if its just the key sheared, I would think I would be able to manually move the wheels when I have it jacked up, but no go with that, either with the engine on or off.

If its not that, and based on the description above, I'd guess I just have air in the lines (not even going to guess how that got there) combined with an ice blockage. e.g. The first time I turned it, when it was hard, it manually pumped what fluid it had into the cylinder, then sucked vacuum (or air) and is now surrounded by it.

It will be two weeks before we are up there again, and no guarantee the weather will be any warmer, but I'll keep you all informed. Oh, also dropped a note to my service guy at the place we bought it - I'll let you know if he responds and what he suggests.

 

[D&D Farm]

Thanks Guys.......How did I ever get along without knowing that?.........Still a mystery to this old brain, so I just take your word for the fact that it works........HUGS.......God bless........Dennis

 

[bordercollie]

Thanks all.

BoarderCollie: When either up in the air or on the ground, the front tires are immovable (at least by me and without the aid of anything like a sludge hammer). Once in a while, when turning the wheel, I'll feel a little bump - like a broken gear trying to engage, but that is it. The steering wheel otherwise spins freely, I've spun in several times in both directions with no avail.

Ice jamming something externally is unlikely. The unit was stored in a steel shed (old international shipping container that is no longer sea worthy) and we had plenty of days in the 40-50s since it was stored. It was also around that temp when it was put away. Now... internal water, yeah, that be a problem. I have a suspicion, but for marital bliss purposes won't say it.

The unit has 420 hours on it. I believe I had it last serviced a bit over 200 hours, so its due. Time to go buy 5 gallons of Super UDT and replace everything.

At the risk of switching subjects: Locally I can find Champion 4000, which claims to be Super UDT rated. Am I OK using that? Real Kubota SUDT is 90+ miles away. I have enough Kubota brand to do the power steering, but not the transmission while I'm at it.

In the past I had better employment and had the dealer do everything, but need to start doing this stuff myself... Yeah, I'm one of those 17% of Americans that are now underemployed after a 25 year Corporate America career. $220 pickup and delivery charges from the dealer 90 miles away is no longer an option.

Cassey

ps. I like the idea of using the used stuff for a cattle rub. My Highlands would appreciate having one of those.

Cassey, . . I've been waiting on a warm spell to put on my winter tires and change the front end fluids as well... I know that sudt is top notch for our transmissions and won't ever use anything else for that purpose .
I know what you mean about the budget. I make a monthly salary and it avg 55 a day but I will still be buying sudt for the transmission. I might consider a top quality fluid for the other places but repair parts are so expensive, I am chicken till someone else goes first. I have been happy ordering my filters and even the oil from one of our sponsors, Messicks eqpt. No tax on out of state so that helps even out the shipping cost.. collie

 

[SpudHauler]

Cassey,

There doesn't seem to be any really good replacement for SUDT2.

It's expensive and for you harder to get, but in the end guaranteed to work.

I would not try to substitute something else for the good stuff.

Messicks might even ship it to you cheaper than you can go get it.
.

 

[CarrotRentals]

Water in Power Steering Fluid

I mistakenly identified the power steering resivour as part of the coolant system when I did my first coolant flush and change. Filled it right up with water from the hose with a nozzle. When I realized how much I just screwed things up i tried to drain the SUDT from the system but everything got contaminated because I ran the unit with water in the system. Talk about expensive, try flushing the system with SUDT untill it runs clear after water contamination.