Hello all ! I bought a new 1825 e Massey Ferguson tractor. This tractor has a positive camber on front wheels. There is a 3/8" difference in the positive camber from one side to other. That has been verified by Massey Ferguson (AGCO) tech and the dealership owner and his mechanic. The AGCO tech drove out from Kansas city to Bourbon, Mo. to adjust the toe-in and called it good. There is no adjustment for the camber. Toe-in and camber are two separate functions. You can not adjust the toe-in to correct the camber. The AGCO tech tells me the camber is now within the specs while also keeping the toe-in within specs. The owner at Boast Enterprises agrees with this so called fix. I asked for the specs for camber and the tech stated he does not know what they are. The tractor is designed by Japanese engineers and built in Indonesia. The AGCO tech eventually told me that the specs for camber are in Japan in the Japanese language. He suggested I get a Japanese interperter. Not only can I not get the camber specs, but I have asked for the warranty in writing twice and still do not have it. I have written the legal dept. in Duluth Georgia. I have not heard back from them and it has been several weeks. Their only answer was for the AGCO tech to call me and convince me that there is nothing wrong with the tractor and the adjustment will take care of it. Anyone have trouble with positive camber on 1825 e tractor? Can someone with Massey Ferguson tractor experience help me with this?
PROBLEM 1825 e Massey Ferguson
- Thread starter 1825 e
- Start date
Hi Doc, thanks for the questions. How are you? The tractor is at Boast Enterprises in Bourbon, Mo., about 20 minutes away. It has been there since May. The 1825 e Massey Ferguson was here for only two days. The tractor is new with 3 hours on it. The 3/8" positive camber difference is easily noticeable. The one day I had the tractor I first put a 4' level on my shop floor to check for level, which it is, because I made it level when I built it. I then measured off the wheel at the bead, not the tire, with a stick rule and holding the 4' level at plumb for measuring side to side difference. I drew a diagram of the measurements and took it to Boast Enterprises. No one at Boast contests the 3/8" (37.5%) positive camber difference. They immediately came out with a trailer and hauled it back to their shop. While the tractor was sitting in my driveway on the trailer, the salesman told me the only way to fix the tractor was to replace the entire front end. Earlier when I took the diagram to Boast and showed the mechanic he told me he could not fix the camber difference. However when things got to the owner, Jared Boast, things changed. Instead the toe-in was adjusted. There is no adjustment for camber. Camber is machined at the manufacturing plant. He called it good and told me to come and get the tractor. Of course I am not going to do that. The Massey Ferguson 1825 e has a factory defect. As we all know camber and toe-in are two separate disciplines and one does not correct the other. Can you help? Do you know of others that have had this issue with a new tractor of any manufacturer? I can not hire an attorney. Boast Enterprises has $23,600 of mine AND my tractor. It took 41 years of working and saving to be able to buy a new tractor. Some of those years was working on heavy equipment at a cement plant, about 2,000 acres, not a concrete batch plant, meaning I am most familiar with this type of equipment. I drive a 1997 Chevy pick up, not a new one or even a newer one, in order to buy a new Massey Ferguson tractor. Thank you very much Doc.
Yes I have looked at all their tractors on their gravel lot. I would only be able to "eye" them up. At that time there was not another 1826 e on the lot. Pulling them into their shop for measurement would be out of the question. Here is copy of receipt, attached. I wrote AGCO Massey Ferguson legal dept in Duluth, Georgia pleading with them to fix or replace the defective 1825 e. No reply from them. That has been well over a month ago.
Thanks Doc. I really do not know how to turn things around.
Thanks Doc. I really do not know how to turn things around.
I wonder if a different Massey dealer would help you. Might be worth your time calling some, even far away ones to ask for advice / help. There has to be some good ones out there.
I would also follow up every week to 10 days to Massey headquarters. I'm not sure if the legal dept is the right place to write. I would avoid them (ie: lawyers). I would try to communicate with their sales management. let them know you are spreading the word of poor to no service for such an issue and hope they will help.
Good luck. Sounds like a nightmare.
I would also follow up every week to 10 days to Massey headquarters. I'm not sure if the legal dept is the right place to write. I would avoid them (ie: lawyers). I would try to communicate with their sales management. let them know you are spreading the word of poor to no service for such an issue and hope they will help.
Good luck. Sounds like a nightmare.
Well Doc you are correct about poor service, both from Boast Enterprises in Bourbon Mo. and AGCO (Massey Ferguson) Based in Duluth, Georgia. That is exactly why I am on this forum to get help with the 1825 e factory defect. I will take your suggestion of calling a reputable Massey Feguson dealer and hear what advice they have for me. I will let you know.
Okay Doc, I called a Missouri Massey Ferguson dealer and politely gave him my situation. He was very defensive. I apologized for upsetting him and told him I would not bother him again. He offetred no help and I doubt that any others are going to be of help. Thanks for the suggestion.
Saw this post and thought of your issue.
It's about cars but it also applies to tractors and all vehicles.
What is wheel alignment?
Wheel alignment,part of standard automobile maintenance that consists of adjusting the angles of wheels to the car manufacturer specifications. The purpose of these adjustments is to reduce tire wear and to ensure that vehicle travel is straight. Three elements of wheel alignment CAMBER, CASTER & TOE.
What are the symptoms of your car being out of alignment?
- Uneven tire wear
- Steering wheel being crooked when you are driving straight.
- The car is pulling to one side
-Tires are making squeling noise
When to do wheel alignment?
Wheel alignment checked at least every 10,000km and automatically every time you change new tires or at least 2-3 yearsyears but depending on the road condition if there are many potholes at least once a year.
It's about cars but it also applies to tractors and all vehicles.
What is wheel alignment?
Wheel alignment,part of standard automobile maintenance that consists of adjusting the angles of wheels to the car manufacturer specifications. The purpose of these adjustments is to reduce tire wear and to ensure that vehicle travel is straight. Three elements of wheel alignment CAMBER, CASTER & TOE.
What are the symptoms of your car being out of alignment?
- Uneven tire wear
- Steering wheel being crooked when you are driving straight.
- The car is pulling to one side
-Tires are making squeling noise
When to do wheel alignment?
Wheel alignment checked at least every 10,000km and automatically every time you change new tires or at least 2-3 yearsyears but depending on the road condition if there are many potholes at least once a year.
Yes Doc, these are the disciplines of vehicle front ends with steering. I have done some work for Hunter Engineering, St. Louis, Mo. Hunter Engineering is world wide recognized for their expertise in front end alignment equipment and training front end techs & mechanics. If you go into dealerships for high-end cars you will see their equipment. Jaguar, Land Rover, BMW, Mercedes and the Big Three. They have cornered the world market, and the last competitor they knocked out was Snap-on. I had a conversation with them about the Massey Ferguson 1825 e and it's factory defect. They called the AGCO tech. adjusting of the toe-in to correct the camber "hocus-pocus". I have stayed in touch with them. Because the tractor is four wheel drive true gear mesh is a great concern. You can not have the gear mesh you need with the camber being out 3/8", direct from the factory in Indonesia. I talked to Doug Vahrenburg at a Massey Ferguson dealership in Higginsville, Mo. over the phone. When I brought up this very issue of true gear mesh on the four wheel drive front end, he replied by saying the front end has a 5 year warranty. That is a poor justification for a factory defect. Thanks Doc. When you point out these basic facts it brings out more principles in 101 mechanics that Massey Ferguson, AGCO is ignoring. Thank you.
Sure sounds like a step in the right direction.
Friday, September 15, I got a call from the AGCO tech, Paul Erwin. This is the same tech that adjusted the toe-in at the Boast Enterprise dealership. He adjusted the toe-in and said that corrected the camber. Well a month later he is still telling me the same thing and that the tractor is within specs. I have asked for the specs twice in writing and the warranty and I have not gotten either. I asked the tech for the specs again Friday over the phone. I do not think I will ever see the specs. This Massey Ferguson 1825 e is defective and they want nothing to do with it.
Doc, I have no warranty paperwork. I have been asking for it and asked in writing for months. I checked camber by pulling the tractor up on my level shop floor. Using a 4' level and holding it at exactly plumb and measured with a stick rule off of wheel bead. One side, obvious to the eye, it is has a 3/8'" greater difference in positive camber. I showed this measurement to the salesman when he picked up the tractor. He agreed with the assessment, and in my drive way told me the only fix is to replace the front end. The tractor has 3 hours on it and has been sitting at Boast Enterprises in Bourbon, Mo. since May. My concern is true gear mesh at the front end with the camber being defective. I think eventually you will have gear & transmission troubles. I have been told by proffessional people in the tractory industry since the 70's that the gear mesh will eventually cause a mechanical failure. This goes beyond just two wheels in positive camber. At the very least the wheels should be symmetrical to each other in positive camber.
Thanks Doc. I am surprised myself. I often wonder if Boast Enterprises - Bourbon, Mo. would have stepped up in my behalf and asked AGCO Massey Ferguson for another tractor things may have different. What your suggesting is right, but why can't people do the right thing? Why does it have to be a fight at any level, here or in the court room? I believe the decision is in the hands right now of the AGCO tech, Paul Erwin. Because he drove across Missouri from Kansas City to Bourbon Mo., made his toe-in adjustment, and called it good, he is now forced to stand by his decision and his hocus pocus mechanics. He has his share of ego and is a bully and sarcastic over the phone. I think he tries to make me angry so I hang up and walk away. He has told me there are many 1825e Massey Ferguson tractors that have this out of whack positive camber, but I am the only one complaining. That statement by the AGCO tech is what brought me to this tractor forum: to hear from other 1825 e tractor owners with the positive camber difference so great. I have yet to hear from one. If this was a regular thing in the Massey Ferguson world I would have heard back from owners by now.